How do you solve this

yeah it'd be so hard to figure that out on the completely linear path where you follow an npc

figure out how to get from A to B on your own.

walk outside of set path

mission failed

The "open world game" conundrum.

I played RDR 1 on PS3 without the radar, but some missions are 100% dependent on it. The game was designed with the radar in mind.
But without the radar, things become much more immersive, the game really changes, you need to find your the sun and its shadows, direction signs you find along the way, memory, landmarks, etc., it's a much more immersive and interesting experience.
However, as I said, the game wasn't designed with that in mind, which is a shame.

I replayed Skyrim a year or two ago, and I modded out the map, and fast travel. It was a much more enjoyable experience.

RDR2 has enough landmarks for me not to get lost. Besides, you can always witch to the cinematic camera so the horse finds the way on its own.

you don't, it's working as intended

You alright, bwoy!

How do you respond without sounding jazzed?

do anything out of the ordinary

MISSION FAILED

either give the player freedom or don't

sick of open world desu

is everyone missing the point of the thread or am I?
I thought it was a commentary on games being pretty but shallow in gameplay, not necessarily a commentary on HUD or UI or minimaps or anything else

that interview where the voice actor said he had to redo all the lines because the ones for female horses sounded like dirty talk

Put a compass instead of minimap

You will catch TB, collecting debnts!
You will rescue obvious traitor and a fuck up!
You will be friends negroes!
You will participate in suffrage bullshit!
You will attack a racist!

Anon Babble is, in fact, pretty retarded

I think the comment is more in the sense that you get the most important information from the mini map and the main screen is just secondary. This happens in many modern games.
In fact, with all the problems in Zelda BOTW, it at least corrected this issue, emphasizing the world rather than the UI, so much so that the option without radar is considered for "pro players", Nintendo is trying to encourage good players to completely remove the mini map and focus 100% on the game world.

game's image: vast open world free to explore

reality: hallway simulator

it's not really a hallway though, since you are free to break off the road and go in any direction you choose
FFX is a hallway simulator

you retards don't get the game design issue displayed here

i tried doing this but there are certain things that are not obvious (basically impossible) in the game world but are super straight forward if you have the minimap on. a good compromise is to enable it whenever you cant find the objective. i think thats their intention hence why its so easy to toggle the minimap

I turn the console off and watch the game on youtube

I 100% RDR2 once and beat the game twice and have literally never failed a mission outside of dying. I seriously don't know how this became a major criticism

just turn it off

Try doing this in Skyrim, you'll never be able to finish the quests unless you know where to go.
Even the quest descriptions in your journal lack directions or details like 'Find [Hidden Treasure]' or 'Go to [Undiscovered Location]'.

Floor line

auto pathfind button like KMMOs
then simply jerk off to anime pornography on your second monitor while you wait for the filler section to end

am I the only person who played RDR2 in first person?

yes you're the only person on the planet that played RDR2 in first-person

try this in mission

mission failed: you abandoned tired western trope #31225

dang

That's a red marker, so not a quest marker but a custom one set by the player. Just don't use it, problem solved.

I never equipped an offhand holster, probably the only person on the planet to not do so. Later I found out that if you did, you cant ever really remove it.
Glad because they looked like shit with 90% of outfits.

Literally told you I played almost whole game like that retard.

how do you solve this

Just don't have a minimap and ignore the crying of the plebs.

Remove minimap. Remove your location on the world map. Only compass so you know what's north.
Map has recognizable landmarks and you have a tell me where to go/where I am button, that tells you where to go based on what landmarks are in the vicinity. By telling you, I mean the character talk to themselves as if they are thinking.

So just wait until between missions to go wander off?
Did you complain that the world was a hallway when the school bus didn't randomly swerve off the road into a field?

spbp

some youtuber guy talked about it once

I'm amazed at how many people are misinterpreting the image

Just look at this.

Dishonest fag.

RDR2 does this well, turn off the map and use the compass it replaces it with. The world is littered with directional signs like Morrowind.
imho that map is for the journalists and actual child gamers.

people deliberately and intentionally ignoring instructions like "protect ally" by fragging them with dynamite.

Never happened to me, I'll be honest out of all the clips I've seen on this issue, it's either this one or the saddle clip. Everything else is "you abandoned the person you're supposed to follow"

Pretty much. And that's not even to mention "all you had to do was follow the train CJ" being a prominent meme. It's only le bad in RDR2 though

remove breadcrumb trail exploration design and the problem is solved

Just ride your horse in a zig-zag pattern, niggaaaaaa.

this is more of a "game not letting you fail quests by killing a character important to it" problem

everyone nowadays always wants to find some reason to hate on popular stuff

here is an example of people complaining about the same thing in a different game

It's only le bad in RDR2 though

Are you doing this on purpose?

I hated this shit in Ghost of Sushi too. "Oops, you got caught, looks like it's game over :)". Fuck that, lemme go full samurai, I don't want to deal with stealth bullshit.

I finished RDR1 and the zombie DLC, had fun with it.
I play RDR2 and i had to force myself trough some of the parts because of how boring it got.
RDR1 played like a real spaghetti western, RDR2 feels more like a cinematic railshooter.

no minimap

meme arrow is unreliable at best and flat out broken at worst

forced to learn maps like the back of your hand

most people will know the lay of any given map decently enough after 1 hour to where they don't require any nav assistancec

It's fucking simple and it's called PUT TRUST IN THE GODDAMN PLAYER, enough to delete navigational tools and allow the player to find his own way.

You can use Clairvoyance, but I get your point

most people also know the map of gtav and that game has a minimap

i hate to break it to you but the american frontier wasn't just deserts and tumbleweeds. the only place italians could find that sort of looks like america was the spanish desert they filmed in. they don't even have saguaro cacti over there, it's just props

There's nothing to solve. If you can't enjoy just riding to the next objective and looking at the scenery, you don't have a soul.

Just don't have a minimap

this is just a bandaid

the true solution is don't have an open world. then you don't have to have busywork traveling sections and can start level 3 where the actual gameplay parts are instead of a mile away.

I disabled the minimap. Sure it can be more frustrating because the game is designed around it, but at least I'm engaging more with the actual game.
Ghost of Tsushima had a decent way of showing where to go by guiding the player with the wind, but that game was still at its heart, ubislop.

I wasnt talking about the aesthetics.
I know the history behind the spaghetti westerns.
I'm just saying i liked RDR1 more then RDR2

which is why, in spite of its politics, the Great Silence is the best spaghetti western.

funfact: on the day of the OK Corral shootout, it was snowing. in fact, it snows fairly often in Arizona in winter

But then Manny The Mongoloid won't be able to enjoy the game!

You're actually posting a game that tried addressing the problem by putting a bunch of random events on the otherwise empty road.
Obviously it wasn't good enough but it's something

the best paella western is wintery too

based

All of these are shit

Wait until you find out that all reality is just some tiny electric impulses sparkling around you stupid meat brain.

Ok, what is wrong with this? What is so horrible that going in a straight line from point A to B is so enraging that you and 5 other autists need to make the same thread once or twice a week??
Do you need jhon red dead to go on a zip line instead? Or in S? Or you want the straight line to be filled with stuff like collectibles or random quests npc's??? Because the latter is what usually happens.

This is why strategy are superior

Semi-open >> semi-linear > hub world > full linear >>> gated open > full open

The true solution would be to make the world smaller or segmented, similar to S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for example.

the plot is closely tied to the aesthetics. spaghetti westerns looked distinctly european (andalusian). RDR2 is 100% americana kino. and you still have so much over the top stuff.

drive shuttle for a car dealership

occasionally get old boomers as customers who complain that I need to use my phone's gps system instead of relying on a single street name and intuition

Open World is something which as a concept sounds good, but in practice it's just bad game design.
Games like Majora's Mask were peak world design. The world wasn't really open world, in fact, there was really nothing to do in the overworld. There were some secret quests or masks to be found and that's it.
All of the interactions were scripted, but they were carefully crafted to give the illusion that the world and its inhabitants were actively taking part in the illusion of choice that the player had.
There was also a pseudo time limitation, which made you feel like every choice that you took while you completed the main quests mattered.
That's one of the main reasons why I hated BOTW and didn't even bother with ToTK.

the true solution is don't have an open world.

No, the true solution is to use the right world for the type of game you intend to make. Open world is almost never the right choice. Even so, RDR2 (and most open worlds with boring travelling) could have been made a lot better if not designed by retards, for example fast travel should never just be an immersion jarring load screen, even something like a few second montage of you giddyin up and riding into the distance for however long it takes to load would be infinitely superior.

All the QOL features like minimap, compass and fast travel only make the open world more pointless. Traversal through it shouldn't be something that can be trivialized or entirely skipped.

for example fast travel should never just be an immersion jarring load screen, even something like a few second montage of you giddyin up and riding into the distance for however long it takes to load would be infinitely superior.

But this is exactly what happens when you fast travel in RDR2?
youtube.com/watch?v=OyVyK5ktyBE

this shit always makes me feel like my life is a lie and all the games I enjoy are fake
if a game stripped of all its visual flair is no longer engaging, is it really a good game?

Retard
It doesn't let you think outside the box

In GTA SA you can get ahead of the train, climb an obstacle and jump on the roof of it for big smoke to easily shoot the Vagos in the mission.

In GTA 3 you could actually shoot the tires of two cars with assassins inside that were going to ambush you at the diner so they will drive uncontrollably as soon as you trigger the ambush when you go to the mission spot.

Car chases in old GTAs were not scripted and could end prematurely if you pit maneuvered or shot their tires.
Modern R* would fail you today. And the cars are indestructible and immovable in the chase scenes until you reach the scripted point

kek

if a game stripped of all its visual flair is no longer engaging, is it really a good game

very few games can actually uphold this criteria, im afraid. only one that comes to mind at the moment is quake 3/quake live as literally 0 of the players that play the game play it for visual flair

Hate it as much as your want, but a compass is at least better than a minimap because it allows you to direct yourself without taking attention away from the actual game.

Mission design is the worst aspect of RDR2. RDR2 is a 10/10 game in every aspect except the outdated restrictive missions

RDR2 is like a 100 hour long marlboro commercial and i loved every second of it

I'm starting to think there really are retards who play open world games by staring at their minimap.

You must be a very good little boy, following the director's orders to the letter, because it's incredibly easy to do.

By not making realistic games because this is what the real world is like. Gamey games like Zelda don't have this issue.

Play it in VR, then it's just like real life.

Pic related got it right decades ago.
Instead of a huge empty world, its much better to have several smaller open areas with higher density of gameplay and secrets for the player to explore and discover.

That shit works like 10% of the time.

you wouldn't get it

maybe if Arthur wasn't the most liberal cowboy to ever live

sleep with another man's wife? hell, I say if the fella can't please her then someone aughta' get the job done. and if it makes him happy, why not?

giving women the right to vote..? well, way I see it, men been running things for the longest time now and look what good it's done us. I say it's time we give someone else a turn

Jews, running the world? I dunno about that Dutch, seems to me like they're just the easiest scapegoat, being that they're not all violent and numerous like some other tribes out there, not naming names and all

colored folk, committing more crime? hell, after what they've been through I say they've got the right to be a little messed up. what our folk did to 'em just ain't right, Dutch...

Hitler, had the right idea? shit, now you're just talking crazy Dutch! sure, he could give a good speech, but the guy was off his damn wagon!

Hwell I can't much blame a fella for wantin' ta chop off his pecker and dress up in a big ol' hoop dress. Many times I've thought of myself as a man trapped in a man's body. Only logical that some fellers are actually women trapped in men's bodies. Well, you're right, it's not logical, but they want to chop off their peckers and I'm not one to yuck their yum.

incels? first I've heard of it, Dutch, but it sounds to me like if they can't get a female companion, well then shit, maybe that's on them... who's to say the world owes them sex anyhow? and it ain't like nothing's stopping them from getting a lady of the night to pop their cherry. I know many a folk who've done the same, right Micah?

Facts

Blame GTA4 retard most of the chases in that game are scripted

Yes and every FPS game is just a whack a mole with fancy graphics.
Fucking faggots...you will bitch about anything...

There are several games out there that solve this. KCD2 hardcore mode hides your location on the map and offers no guidance outside of talking to NPC's and having any directions you get scribbled in the journal. The long dark outright gives you nothing. Not even a compass. You literally have to draw the map yourself.
This vastly slows the game down and it works. The journos and the masses can't be trusted to find their own way and not get frustrated but there should be the industry standard "no-guidance mode" for any game really.

just don't follow the yellow markers

because it's incredibly easy to do

Then why so many fail and complain?

Game gives me mission to do

Do mission

wow, this shit isn't Stanley's Parable

as said, I tried playing rdr2 with no mini map and got to points where the objective would say something like "get to a hidden location" and the spot is very specific with no way to find it without the map. It's bad design

Just Case figured it out years ago, using grapple to gain speed, wing suit to move horizontally and parachute to move vertically. Literally avoided walking and driving any vehicles in the game because of that since you need to plan where you want to go while moving and course correcting, I love it.

it's like watching sitcoms with no laugh tracks and realizing none of the jokes are funny

exactly like

Almost. It just showed some random ass scenery (and for some reason insta ended the one scene you could just see the horse enter from the right). I can't be bothered to explain in detail because it's more about the execution/way it should be directed IMO.

RDO did everything so much better and managed to be more interesting. You’re not some established character with preset personality, you can complete missions as you see fit and fuck around. You get the comfy camp experience without any bullshit, everything is much faster paced, and you get to go into a number of roles. If they developed it more and added shit like heists it could have been even better.

FPS games have level design, encounter design, enemy variety, enemy weaknesses, loads of different guns for certain situations, resource management, all sorts of mechanics that make it fundamentally deep even when stripped of its visuals

Do you shit yourself when you feel the need to pee? Because that's the mindset I'm getting from your post.

YOUR ENTIRE SWARM IS DESTROYED AND THEIR DEMISE FUELS MY RAGING HEROES STRENGTH

The old gta games never had this issue of having to follow the scripted path. I dont know what changed but it’s annoying and defeats the purpose of an open world game

and for some reason insta ended the one scene you could just see the horse enter from the right

Because you arrived to the place you wanted to go? The scenery during the cutscene IIRC is taken from the places you go through while going to the destination, is not just random.

How would you eliminate the missions in a way that is not restrictive?

By not slamming a mission failed screen in front of my face every time i step 2 m off the restricted mission area path

Most people didn't even beat the old 3D GTAs they just put cheats and fucked around the first island

this is just a bandaid

No, it's a design decision that drives you towards good map design.

ree your map design is bad

Silence, child.

Ghost of Tsushima solved this.

VIDEO game

NPC who never bothered to explore or experiment had a perfectly fine time playing hand holding simulator

Well yeah, that's a start

If this was a RDR2 mission you would have just gotten a big failure screen for your reading comprehension.
Which would be justified.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

immersion breaking wind

its slop

Oh I did explore in fact you have to explore to an absurd degree to 100% the game. I just never did it when I was in a mission where the game tells me to follow a guy

Does a swift gust outside break your immersion of having a nice day?

after setting it up to play solo, I agree rdo rocks. Only thing I really hate is timers on all the missions. If there were no timers, rdo would be perfect

youtube.com/shorts/wjdUfK1vytM
Just let the player kill the last sniper and make Dutch say, "wow this was crazy my son!!" and let the player continue the game. They dont do this because the game director is a turbo autist that wants the game to play like a movie or some shit. It doesnt make sense because people love this kind of shit and it would get them praise, "wow the attention to detail!!"

Dying light 1 vs The following or whatever the rural one was. Dl1 was a relatively smaller open world. Not tiny, but it was dense such that you always stumbled across something on your way to something. The following was large but empty as fuck, so you spent most of your time traveling. Battlefield the game suffers something similar in conquest mode where you are sprinting to points for 80% of the gameplay.

Also just don't do open world gameplay anymore. Simple as

Reforger did that. Amusingly the mod you see on almost all servers adds back in a 'where you are'. But it also impressively expected console players to have to navigate without GPS.

it wont even let me think about where i should go cause i cant ignore it

he should have been more liberal

There's an easy fix thoughever. Stop playing shit games.

Integrate the information into the world. The Division and Death Stranding use high tech overlays, Ghost of Tsushima uses the wind.

lol you know this is only close to possible by modding the game right? You don't have the rifle capacity or dead eye to do this

The only real gameplay of these games is the shootouts. These games suck because they have a lot of padding before getting to the real gameplay. Nu-TR platforming is just cinematic magnetic shit so it might as well be just a third person shooter, and a mediocre one at that.

There is no game design issue. Yes, you're too stupid to think beyond whatever picture is in front of you, but you're inability to think doesn't make your misconceptions reality.

youtube.com/watch?v=Ibkssim7KYk
git gud retard

Just immerse yourself bro.

That's unequivocally false in that game though.
If it was TLOU2 or something yes

The answer is just more options, so users can customize this. You could do:

Minimap with GPS guide

Minimap but no GPS guide, just a dot or 'compass' point to where you're going

Minimap with no guides atall

No minimap, but with compass that points to objective

No minimap or objective

There, now everyone can customize to what they feel comfortable/capable of playing. Problem solved. Everyone shut the fuck up.

Game design

Its designed after real world so yes, roads exist. And unlike RL you can pretty much go max speed on your horse in mud and grass so what are you even talking about

As opposed to staring at a mini-map?

You could try not playing schlop.

i would just like to point out that read dead online exists, which has all the best free roam parts of rdr2 but instead of the liberal hick you play as a dumb mute of your design

this is more of a "game not letting you fail quests by killing a character important to it" problem

Strange.

For a game as railroaded as Red Dead 2, you'd think there'd be more trains.

In GTA 3 you could actually shoot the tires

no, you couldn't

Cyberpunk

go to the japanese old ladys house

red dead 2

go to the old cowboys house

ah ah ah you failed the mission cause you took the wrong path there

the fuck, I thought I autistically strip-mined the internet for Arcanum stuff and I've never seen that promo before

Cyberpunk

Turn the camera and every NPC is different

too retarded to follow a marker on the map

I liked traversing in KCD by looking at the map and then following roads and landmarks by memory
I probably couldn't handle hardcore mode without a map marker at all though

Just use the compass.

Nit NPC enough

I love when the game tells me exactly where to go and what to do. I don’t even have to think or read a guide. Just sit back and enjoy the game

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.

This 99% of all games.

This has been debunked

no, previous GTAs just let you exploit bugs. you could pick off enemies at a distance, disable their cars, fuck with their scripting, etc. because they were dumb as shit, not because it was by design
starting from GTA4 the bugs began getting fixed
it's always, *always* been tightly controlled missions combined with insanely open freedom from GTA2 onwards

ITT babies who put circles in the square hole

Didn't read the thread
They already solved it, and you're a nigger
RDR2 has the liveliest open world of all time. You have shit happening on your trips all the time. In the screenshot, you're not on a mission, which means you can get robbed, see someone getting robbed, meet a unique stranger, meet a generic stranger, see a hawk snatch a snake or small animal (which is a simulated wildlife system, not a scripted event), see a notable landmark, or find a side mission. The list goes on.
For example, I always loved being robbed by lowlife highwaymen (picrelated) because there's a separate set of animations for when Arthur stands still with his hands up and the highwaymen search his pockets. It's up to you to choose the moment at which Arthur gets out his pistol in the slickest manner possible and shoots the robber before he can react

Anyone who thinks RDR2 is not the best game of all time should stop taking estrogen HRT and kill themselves because your cybertrash or zoom cringeternal will never be a good game just like you will never be a woman

Worst for this was KC:D
Going hunting with Hans you just follow him for like 10 minutes straight not even any dialogue after the first minute
Uninstalled right there. A game should respect my time

You sound like you would be unfun to hunt with if you need to be yapping non stop

Isn't it funny how in many games you can do that and the game just rolls with it?
Not this AAAA rockschlop though.

It's very simple, stop being afraid to punish the player. If there's no need to keep an eye on the environment, you're not going to.
But if there are real threats or rewards hiding from players you bet they're going to be paying attention. If there's more verticality and things to see above you it's going to be even more effective, but you can thank consoles for making that less attractive design.

by playing with no minimap or ingame map and mapping out the game yourself using an external map and an ingame compass. or if possible using ingame landmarks. i just find it more realistic there would exist a diegetic map of the world the characters exist in so it doesn't feel cheaty.

i just wish games would still come with a paper map like i remember GTA:SA had. i didn't use it for anything as a kid but nowdays i'd be all up that shit.

What difference does that make? You're still "playing" by holding the stick in one direction. A colouring book is more exciting and challenging.

Looks pretty linear to me though

Anon would rather they let you take the wrong horse all the way to sell it only for Arthur to realize and have to go back (no fast travel of course) or even try to buy it back.

redemption 2 came with a paper map. in fact, it's probably the easiest R* game to navigate without the minimap because there's a signpost on practically every intersection telling you where the roads go.

ghost of tsushima did this, but instead of letting the player figure it out they added the directional wind to help the brainlets.

I don't remember RDR2 having that many Japanese names

Any other developer

"That's not your horse Arthur"

Rockstar

Mission failed. You saddled the wrong horse.

all you have to do to beat Mario is hold Right and jump occasionally. two inputs beat the entire game. reductionism only serves to make you look like a retard.

you fucking retards, there is a yellow marker on the bottom of the minimap which shows there is a mission available (as in not started yet) and this nigger is in the free roam.

nobody cares pablo, nobody really plays or care about open world sloppa

Who are these other developers that would let you do this?

Any other developer the railroaded 5% of the game would be the entire game and the 95% actually run part wouldn't be there, and charge the same price, retard

You could say that about any game, including Elden Ring and all of the souls slop that you play.

*Actually fun part

most other devs wouldn't even let you saddle another horse. in fact, the saddle mechanic wouldn't exist in over world gameplay and would just be a cutscene. at any other point in the game you can saddle any random horse you want, it's just in the context of that specific mission you have to take a specific horse to the stable because the plotline of the mission is about how that specific horse is of particular value and the character you're travelling with needed it brought in.

It's not reductionism, it is literally what the game is. There's no need for coordination or timing. You just follow the arrows and use bullet time to click on enemies while they're frozen. Mario games are made to be beatable by babies and even they are a lot more difficult (and fun).

you don't get infinite deadeye, and the game throws more enemies at you than you can get out of one full magazine of deadeye. Nobody makes you use deadeye, either. The number of people who bitched and moaned about the 'slow' controls and 'unreliable horse' also shows the game was mechanically more difficult than you're letting on.

yes, it is reductionism.

I’m pretty sure I got a game over in the snow part and the first shootout and the train robbery. All intro areas. It’s like being on a stage set where the world outside the mission content is off-limits

Doesnt rdr2 let u auto run when u set a way point on the cinematic cam... i use to love doing this shit. Perfect time to roll a joint.
Inb4 dood weed.

I think a big part of why I bounced off RDR2 and never finished it was the scene where you're doing debtor stuff and beating up that guy that gives you TB. I felt bad and during that one QTE where you're supposed to hit the guy, I didn't press anything. Arthur just stood there, like he was about to hit him. Then it suddenly cut to the guy being a bruised pulp crawling away or whatever without me ever having touched the guy.

That plus all the on-rails horse rides for missions made the game feel really stifling and cheap.

Game gud because it spawns random activities around the player

Skyrim did this in 2011.

story rich + immersive games don't need to have heavy gameplay as long as they are well made. long before action adventure games with heavy cinematic flair people played text adventures where the gameplay is reading and typing or clicking text boxes.

Larian.
Nope. R*'s mission design is ass because you have to follow their rigid script or be met with a complete failure. Not to mention the other 95% of the game pointless because the game itself is so easy and the economy is ass.
A cutscene would've been better than that time wasting saddle shit. In fact, RDR2 is filled with tons of "gameplay" moments that would be better off as cutscenes. The Guarma section for instance, where you was up on the beach and have to hold forward, why the fuck was that not a cutscene.

and Skyrim is generally considered pretty bloody good, ain't it?

Only by normies.

I don't think they were complaining about the controls being difficult to use, but rather annoying and boring. People don't hate 20mph speed limits for being difficult.

A cutscene would've been better than that time wasting saddle shit. In fact, RDR2 is filled with tons of "gameplay" moments that would be better off as cutscenes

It's the tutorial for a mechanic you're going to use for the rest of the game, what the fuck is wrong with Anon Babble. This is such a stupid edge case to advocate for cutscene tutorials

because outside of that mission, the saddle mechanic is how you change a horse to be your 'primary'. You find a horse in the wild you like, you swap your saddle onto it. If your horse dies, you have to go retrieve your saddle.

story rich + immersive games don't need to have heavy gameplay as long as they are well made

True

can't adapt to anything other than Call of Duty

sounds like Skill Issue to me.

when you've found yourself trying to argue that Skyrim is bad, you've lost

It's the tutorial for a mechanic you're going to use for the rest of the game

And it's critical you saddle this specific horse or otherwise the world ends and the player doesn't learn anything.

Text adventure games used to have options. This is more like Nekopara.

skyrim is bad, yeah. In every aspect.

Not an argument.

Probably because triggering this fail state is not only not likely for most players since the right one is right next to you when you gain control but it's not even possible most of the time

The most hateful things in all of the R* games.

Wow, that sounds horrible.
youtube.com/watch?v=AetJjMPyMuI

I put 100hrs into my first RDR2 playthrough I almost never used the mechanic. Horse bonding is too important to constantly be switching horses around. RDR1 allowed you to tame while horses too, but it didn't need such a cumbersome and useless mechanic. You also don't need to induce an instant fail state for putting the saddle on the wrong horse, especially since you can't even do such a thing outside of that one mission anyway.

softlocks are not fail states, and this is counted as a fail state.

I agree with parts like this, same with the Uncharted games, but when it comes to examples like , I don’t. In open world games, you can enjoy the journey and the interaction with the world. Once it becomes repetitive and you’ve seen it all, you can use fast travel.

I didn't use it

So what other people do use? I fucking guarantee you didn't trigger that fail state

and this is counted as a fail state.

Yeah, the fail is the whole "game".

I saying your easter egg is a dressed up failstate retard

obviously you haven't, otherwise you would know that horse bmoding takes like 15 minutes to reach max state.

sorry but AAA needs to sell 10million+ so they make the games retard-proof so any stoned jamal or 12yo jeremy can play it

And I'm saying competent game devs don't need to do a dramatic "omg you totally saddled a wrong horse, the game is over now, gg no re"

Must’ve never played a modern Rockstar game. If you do anything besides what’s explicitly instructed you fail the mission

Play a good game instead.

this is why I kind of wrote off rockstar games for the longest time I spend so much time just watching the radar
but I recently started playing through all of the games and just glimpsing at the radar for turns for whatever street then mainly watching the game, it's so much better and I actually start learning the maps and streets

Why? The game calls you stupid either way. RDR2 method is faster and cleaner

No, I didn't trigger the fail state. The entire point of this thread is that R* makes their missions needlessly rigid, despite allowing freedom outside of them.

cleaner

xDDDD

As has already been pointed out, outside of a few examples these games are made with the player having to use the minimap as a mandatory feature. It ends up training the player to use it all the time even when it is unnecessary. It's not a player problem, the player is just doing what the game demands. It is a developer problem, for not making level, world, and dialogue that actually guides the player naturally.

Back in the good old days dialogue and quest journals gave explicit directions. Landmarks were also put in the game world so the player could orient themselves. But now developers don't want to spend time writing good directions or paying for an extra 10 seconds of voice acting and having a decent journal. And developers want to focus on bland, visual clutter instead of distinct landmarks.

People whine that players are getting dumber, but they really aren't. Players appear dumber and more impatient because developers are lazy and don't want to spend the time, thought, and energy to actually engage with players' mental faculties, and instead the developers demand players be dumb and impatient and are training them to play that way.

When you drive, do you also look at the GPS all the time?

I did, I'm not a metafag though, so I didn't autiscally check my bonds to see how fast they increased. I just assumed it would take quite a while to hit max bond, because making it fast would just invalidate the entire system. Seems I was wrong and R*'s retarded balancing invalidated another of the game's system, not surprised though.

Let's not pretend that the crazy taxi map wasn't just a big circle

So it was fucking point for you to even argue about that since you know triggering that fail state it out of it's way

you need to intentionally trigger it

Yes because there's also the edge case that you saddled a horse a mile away, then you have to go back that mile

You'd have me if you didn't start spouting Muslim propaganda. Look up who actually funds refugees into these Western countries and supplies drug cartels with guns. Be shocked at how much of it is directly from the religion of peace.

Oh my god, no!
In Arcanum the game wanted me to talk to an npc so I killed him. The game didn't tell me I failed and to load a save. How bizarre is that!

all this cope

just let them be anon, they're a lost cause

You can also toggle it on and off whenever at the press of a button with no pause.

RDR2 isn't an RPG??

maybe on roleplaying servers in rdo

Can you clear this mission? 90% of Anon Babble can't

movie game apologists

kys

Even worse, it's not even a game. It's a shitty interactive experience midwits jerk to.
But hey, I get it, small indie company, right?

A cutscene would've been better than that time wasting saddle shit

The sad state of modern "games"
GO WATCH MOVIES NIGGER I WOULD BASH YOUR NIGGER SKULL IN YOU FUCKING FAGGOT

Thought the watermark was the fucking divx logo for a second

based quicktime event enjoyer

I beat it first try. :)

Why couldn't I kill Micah and invalidate like 50 missions

Game gud because it spawns random activities around the player

Yes. And? You think you're making an argument here or what?

Small indie company :(

Ah yes, slowing walking up to a stationary object and hitting a button is so interesting. You must be a big fan of unskippable shitty walk and talk sections huh. Stupid fucking retard, you are too low IQ to have an opinion on this topic.

no you're right, this thread feels like a damn IQ test in real time

RE2 already solved it.

they didn't want the game that way and no one complains about it but Anon Babble because you can't do that in 99% of games :(

pajeets have low iq so

It ends up training the player to use it all the time even when it is unnecessary. It's not a player problem, the player is just doing what the game demands

its because open world games are the de facto AAA medium and not everyone likes them so they are designed with the option of being able to play them as linear experiences just following the arrow and this is preferable for most who get forced into playing open world games or giving up most of AAA gaming. KCD2 notably has the most dialog lines put into a game and a lot of these are descriptions of where to go so that you can do it without a map.

i had already played AC:shadows without map or fast travel so i was kind of worn out from the experience so with KCD2 i just went with fast traveling but i imagine it'd be easy to play it with no map or minimap outside few exceptions that always get overlooked.

AC games have a decent middle ground in that with the exploration set to hardest difficulty you just get a text description of where to go and if you combined it with playing with a paper map or an equivalent you get a pretty good feel of exploring without handholding that isnt needlessly contrived like in rdr2 where you have to find the exact pond under which to stash your cart etc. instead you just find the general area and use the witcher sense to make the final 1% of the trip

The last open world game I played was Elden Ring and I found myself falling into the trap of looking at the map all the time. At that point I just stopped and decided to go to whatever looked cool in the distance. It was a lot more fun.

>they didn't want the game that way and no one complains about it

Your circlejerk means so much to me

You clearly just don't want tutorial missions so that you can make a post on plebbit and get thousands of updoots for explaining basic game mechanics.

movie game apologists

This whole thread is filled with braindead boomers and retarded zoomers complaining about how this game has "too much gameplay" what are you talking about, pederast?

This is the circlejerk actually, most complaining about it didn't play the game or the ones that did and are still complaining about it didn't trigger the fail

Of course they didn't play it, you don't play rdr, you experience it. Only in the way rockstar wants you to, or else.

Following an NPC in a straight line while he dumps embarrassing dialogue isn't a game. Neither is pushing X to saddle a horse.

Hahaha, nigger, you're literally telling me that a game would be better off as a single cutscene. Do you even realize how irrelveant your nigger opinion is? I just can't even start to describe how I don't care about nonopinions from niggers like you

You don't even have 3rd grade reading comprehension, stop trying to give your worthless opinion already.

Elden ring didnt feel like that though

Neither is pushing X to saddle a horse.

Neither is pushing a button to clean your gun

Neither is pushing a button to talk to any npc with different options

Neither is pushing a button to loot bodies with a dedicated realistic animation

Neither is pushing a button to feed your horse

Neither is pushing a button to skin an animal

Neither is pushing a button to make a camp site

Neither is pushing a button to start fishing minigame

Neither is...

You just don't like playing games. You literally don't like games, but you still think that RDR2 is a "movie game"
Just, like, EAT SHIT NIGGER

Most people play elden ring with a guide open

Anyone who defends DRD2 slop needs to be taken behind the barn and shot.

mission failed!

you used a wrong gun to execute them

EVERY PUDOFAGS NIGHTMARE

even just riding your horse is more gameplay than GTA because you have to press x and yes timing matters, it simulates spurring

Did your uncle tell you that? That he's merely spurring you?

Reminder that if you use the word "slop", you should kill yourself

Fishing is the only one of those that could be qualified as a game, and it is garbage. Bind VLC's Play button to X on your controller and go watch a movie RETARD.

most people are retarded
most people only play fifa
who cares

Based Rockstar

Correct. This is goyslop. By Jews, for you. They wouldn't let their own children get near this skinner box garbage.

It hurts you, doesn't it?
Good. Wear it as a badge of shame, goy.

Go play fortnite, NIGGER

that open world samurai game somewhat solved it (but not really)

This isn't going nowhere if I have to explain to you why you're retarded, anon. The point is a 2011 game already did all the things that make you consider RDR2 "the greatest game of all time"
There's nothing groundbreaking in RDR2 other than horse balls. Just talk about graphics next time, it's a less retarded take at least

Why are you all obsessing over this one horse when the game has 500 other missions and way more thought-out interactions that do in fact include shit like like "no, retard, you're doing it wrong" instead of a straight-up fail state?
It's like you're scraping the barrel just to hate this game
You literally like men, your opinion is irrelevant

the only thing skyrim spawns around you is wolves and mudcrabs

Yes and it shows your take was retarded because random activities has been common in open world games for decades.

Fortnite is infinitely better than this SHIT (You).

Reminder this shit began with dungeon crawlers adding automapping

There's nothing groundbreaking in RDR2 other than

a thousand things that has never been in any game before it

I really think you should kill yourself
You're just wrong, there's no point in talking to you

The point is a 2011 game already did all the things

Oh yeah, I'm sorry, this really means the industry should stop improving and making new games, you're absolutely right
Kill yourself, nigger, okay?

Yes, the game is designed to be played with the minimap, you can't play it properly in many parts without it.
Fucking idiots giving advice when they don't even play games.

HAHAHAHAHAHH!
No way this is a real post!
LOL!
RDR2 HATERS THINK FORTNITE IS BETTER
SCREENSHOT THIS SHIT RIGHT NOW
YOU LITERALLY CAN'T POSSIBLY MAKE THIS SHIT UP
KILL YOURSELF, YOU SUPER NIGGER!

What's the problem? Rockstar games are for complete fucking morons. Now get back to your (mandatory) cuckwagon mission that instantly fails you for moving a centimeter off course

Leave it to RDR2 fans to be absolutely retarded
en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:World_Interactions

RDR2 HATERS THINK FORTNITE IS BETTER

Yes.

The issue is that games are designed with minimaps / GPS in mind.

When games didn't have those, developers needed to include landmarks and well written quests that describe where you need to go. Now they just skip that - even the dumbest players will find their way to the quest.

No but few good games have so little actual gameplay that you can turn it into an atari 2600 game

Works on my machine.

t. has never used a topo map IRL

get from A to B

a walking simulator

Did you know that in BOTW, a clever feature (as pointed out in one of the loading screen tips) is that horses will automatically follow the road?

The horses in RDR also do this, they also know not to just run straight off cliffs and will stop must of the time when the player takes them to one

Tried, keeping track of enemies its way too hard, almost impossible with dogs.

RDRD 1 or 2 had a feature that allowed your horse to automatically follow NPCs during missions, so you could go take piss while "playing"

skyrim, zelda, rdr2 fans arguing which flavor of dogshit is tastiest

you can tell school's out

GTAVC+SA, WoW (2004) have the best open worlds. gen-z garbo can't even compare.

how come vanilla wow still has the most immersive open world despite being centuries old? Is it the lack of fast travel? Other players running around? Mobs being dangerous?

Bethesda chads win again

all of those + soundtrack

entering barrens when it's 3AM IRL and you start hearing that sad flute with the moon silhouetting your character running onwards to crossroad to get to the inn so you can crash out in game and IRL is the ultimate "vibe" as genz's would call it

This shit is so bad because you can let go of the controller for a minute and you don't die, you should be actually dodging falling shit or speeding because the wall is collapsing below you.
Thos games that don't advance until you press something.

1. it's not that big of a deal
2. turn it off if it bothers you so much

completely misses the point, again

It's all so tiresome. I get it, your underage and this was your generation's "big game" and you think Arthur is the greatest character ever because he was designed for fatherless kids like you, but it's time to grow up: picking a R* game to talk about the industry improving is a terrible hill to die on. Hell, RDR2 is somehow slower than RDR1. At least the first game was actually trying to be fun. Playing Liar's Dice online was a funnier experience than the whole Arthur campaign. Now get off Anon Babble and go look for your father.

/thread

no you can't you fucking retard

You're all being trolled. The type of normgroid who enjoyed this game doesn't even own a computer.

Games like Morrowind work because they are designed without guides in mind. It is not just something you can toggle off and expect it to work

This stuff only gets spammed when there is any kind of criticism of BOTW/TOTK, since both are open-world games with horses and a main quest, released around the same time. This time it's because the rumour mill is speculating that a troon might be hired to play the role of Zelda in an adaptation.

Undead nightmare would've saved rdr2

Who gives a fuck? If you enjoy it, enjoy it.

Fucking moron.

Stop making games for normalfags who need big glowing arrows telling them where to go.

Just don't play woke movie-slop?

Your mom enjoys BBC trains ran on her yet few would call that a game, let alone a good one

im in my 30's and dont have a license..

Rockstar fanboys will never admit that the new games are largely pure garbage so they come out with all sorts of copes.

Based. Walking everywhere was the best decision I ever made. It's like playing RDR2 but healthier.

I 100% RDR2 once and beat the game twice

The problem is that you are legitimately retarded.

Once a game has been designed with this shit in mind, there's nothing you can do to fix it. Try playing Dishonored 2 without objective markers. You regularly get told to find something or meet someone with no indication of where they might be. The devs simply didn't design the levels with this in mind.
(In case you're thinking "having to meet someone in an area you don't know and needing to actively look for them sounds both realistic and engaging", no. This often happens after the bulk of the mission is over and you've already thoroughly explored the area, so you're just retreading old ground randomly until you give in and turn the markers on.)

The only solution is to play games where markers and minimaps are off by default or don't exist at all.

Playing Rockstar games

No thank you, not since San Andreas.

Oblivion:

you mount the wrong horse

horse flagged as stolen

horse reports you to the police

STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM

Deus Ex didn't had that problem so Harvey Smith clearly got stupider with time.

Remove the minimap and all GPS functionality.

Just turn the radar off

but I need my map

Well, get out the physical one that came with the game

kys cück

hallway walking simulator, but you can get lost in the woods

Brilliant

The online for the first two months was exceptional. Actual competition. Until levelling and updates just made everything gimmicky.

Such wasted potential.

Fallout 76 should have been PVP

Should have forced everyone to play free~aim and for there to of not been a mini map.

And the main online to have thousands of players. And roles like law and outlaw.
And farmers even

Like homesteads

And factions

Like Rust and Gmod darkRP

But who will listen!? Only the

divine

who
say
obviously
and laugh

These games were SO much potential

It’s a tragedy really.

Who looked at 76 and said I want it to be like Rust.

Who gave who the keys.

And then bioshock infinite

Imagine if that was a splatoon tf2 multiplayer game

The bioshock 2 multiplayer was kino
But half assed

Who knows who knows what could’ve been.
Like Dishonoured 2 multiplayer x Bioshock infinite?

It should have had a poo and pee meter, only it's internal and you have to notice your toon shifting around like they need to poo or pee, then you press o to squat and x repeatedly to push out and steady arcs with the joystick to wipe your butt or your hands get poopy and people give you dirty looks and your probability of getting sick increases (there are several internal sickness meters like Far Cry).

I actually thought it was about the HUD since I have trouble splitting attention between the map and the scenery. Not really bad when you get to where you're going, but traveling around I had to stop at points just to be able to appreciate everything. I don't mean that I saw something pretty, I mean that I had to actively force myself to stop staring at the minimap while moving since I know it has relevant information on it and there's no immediate threat of death from looking away from it like in a car.

FarCry2 multiplayer also had such vibes

Those Bioshock zeppelins were wasted potential

Yeesh

Gtfo

Bioshock infinite should be redone by the original staff

When people saw the vox, people knew it had splatoon tf2 potential

I agree with you mostly. I wouldn't play RDR2 without the minimap personally, but you could achieve the same amount of guidance with a dot on the map (and similarly a point on the compas). The game even does this itself sometimes, where it just gives you a point on the map as an objective without showing the 'road' to get there.

Thanks to fortnite, zoomers can tell if a game is glorified Atari gameplay loop

And niggers on Anon Babble say graphics don't matter, LOL!

Have a show HUD button/combo on the controller. One option for full HUD, one with minimal HUD with everything stripped out except compass pointers and ammo/items. Last option is no HUD that shrinks the minimap down and makes the show HUD button a show map button.

Why is it so fucking hard to do this, and why not in a game where you spent a couple fighter jets worth of money on to make it look good?

youtube.com/watch?v=-Fhj07C1ou0

I feel like this is a problem with overplaytesting. I'm sure that plenty of players NEED the big minimap, and rockstar feels like they have to make sure those people have their option or they won't play the game. I don't really even mind it, just give me options in the menu to change things to suit my taste. Let me look at your beautiful ass game without a HUD in the way.

If you think these are equivalent in value you must also think watching a movie is equivalent to staring at a blank wall for 90 minutes.

The visual and auditory presentation are as much a part of the experience as the gameplay is.

Or just stop buying into external propaganda that "YOU DIDN'T BEAT IT"/"YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG"

It's a complaint that I'm looking at a map and not the scenery, what are you on about with this?

a perfect analogy, rdr2 delivers the same thrill as riding a schoolbus.

do you guys subscribe to dutch having a head injury or just bad judgment

No, having it in the game is fine. I'm talking about a quickbind to hide the HUD. Almost every fucking open world I've had to mod it in. There is NOTHING more infuriating than having to menu into settings and change HUD options like this.

ok but retarded for shitting on subnautica while praising spamming screen with on-screen toddler markers

gameplay is reading and typing or clicking text boxes.

There was a lot more than that for adventure games, especially with how much deaths/how stuck you can be. E.g. picrel, you can kill yourself in 5 seconds

I argue the reverse: for 90% of games, the gameplay is unremarkable. But the visuals/atmosphere/tone is so good no fuck you storyfags I'm tired of your creative writing 101 garbage, if I want a GOOD story I'm reading a book that it keeps me hook. You posted Crash, it was Crash's fun and charming environments/animations that kept me hooked as a kid.
There's multiple meanings. I choose the one that I didn't discuss to death. There was a reason I only bought it to hang out with my friend: because I wanted to hang out with my friend, not play the gmae.

The awkward silence as they stare at eachother waiting for the would-be laugh track to end heightens the comedy though

What modern game is a counterpoint to this? No handholding, no goyslop. Just high quality gameplay and learning from the player?

This guy is atrociously unfunny. He's been doing this same shtick for like 6 years, and it was only slightly amusing back then. The dead horse is beaten into dust.

You want players to read instructions?! No, even worse than that... TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES?!

how do you solve this

The only games where I look at the minimap for more than a quick, occasional references are blobbers with maze dungeons, and to be honest those suck.

Can we talk about the elephant in the room that is Minecraft? Had a lot of fun with it when it came out as a wind down before bed sort of game. I want that same sense of scale but I'm Rock Thundercock with a giant hammer and there's DOOMesque enemies everywhere.

Why can't we get the same sort of level generation, just coded in a different engine?

Release Elden Ring

Reverse Collapse: Codename Bakery. Once you get past the artstyle, you will find that it's a very well designed game that ramps up in difficulty quickly. Pirate the pre-patch version if you want the un-nerfed stealth missions.

The thing is the most modern games lack depth due to needing the widest (profit) audience, therefore they go for zero substance all flash. I will always remember the 343 v bungie video because at the start they make it clear that halo was fun first before flash
youtu.be/6qfx9eoB-88?si=uSsKjjfKn4mL_0JK&t=16

comes from VIDEO system, as in you play the game on your TV, like a VIDEO

Computer games are called COMPUTER games

Mobile games are called MOBILE games

Movies aren't sold on their interactivity, inbred retard

if a game stripped of all its visual flair is no longer engaging, is it really a good game?

This is what separates a good game from a great game

Movies aren't sold on their interactivity, inbred retard

Neither are games

Too late. We all saw it.

Remove the mini-map, and remove the player icon from the full map. Force the player to rely on landmarks so they have to pay attention to the environment.

Having to follow the stars and whatnot, like actual cowboys supposedly did, and like this fag youtube.com/watch?v=MvJPKOLDSos suggested. That would've been cool.

Well most games it's really hard to tell what the hell is going on without any visuals, so sure. If we're giving enough visual information to play the game, I'd strongly disagree with you. Most games I played could work with very little graphical fidelity.

Cdda, Hotline Miami, Crow Country, Mount&Blade, Songs of Syx, Caves of Qud, Enter the Gungeon, Kenshi, Terminus, Blashpemous, Alice Madness Returns

Just to name a few games I've played recently. Hell some of those are just letters.

Open your ass and your heart will follow.