Every argument I've seen about the endings is always watered down to maelle vs verso but why has no one ever brought...

Maybe if he was a better father none of this would have happened and Alicia wouldn't have been groomed by the Writers

She's playing with her barbies

It has the same effect as prolonged drug abuse
she's doing METH

Alicia doesn't like painting and is fairly withdrawn

tell her it's ok and that she can just read, even build her a reading room

paint a whole canvas for her to convey the idea she needs to try and fly

she fucks up and kills her brother

he was lost trying to save his wife and people make mistakes. that doesn't mean he wasn't correct in trying to save his daughter from an inevitable death while also risking the death of his wife.

Real world whoo
Painted world whee

Abd that's why you choose the real one.

More of a whee guy myself

Nah, do what you want in life and fuck everyone else. The moment you start living your life for others is the moment you die as a person.
FPBP

Except the wheeeee kills you.
The whoooo gives you a chance.

the irony is anyone who actually liked maelle/alicia would choose versos ending because they would want her to survive as a character. by choosing her ending, you're letting her succumb to her addictions and eventually get snuffed out with the painting once it becomes to unstable.

are maellefags this low iq?

Painters are evil and deserve to be consumed by their horrid ability.

yeah bro i'm going to let my family member addicted to heroin slowly die cause fuck da man i do what i want hell yeah!

are you 16 or fucking retarded? probably both. once you grow up a little bit you discard these childish notions and realize your actions impact those around you, especially your family and loved ones.

Maybe if he was a better father

Oh yeah maybe if you weren't such a shitty kid, you wouldn't be here too!

The problem is Renoir isn't being tough enough on Aline. Aline should know better and seeing her daughter succumb to the canvas should be a wake up call for her then Renoir could help ease Alicia out by being able to promise to not destroy the canvas once she comes out. But then Alicia has made it pretty clear that she still resents Alicia giving Alicia another reason to not come out.
Renoir really needs to start giving Aline a good beating.

People also very heavily gloss over the problems of the whole dysfunctionality of the family as whole. Despite Renoir's good intentions, his methods are closer to your average blunt instrument where being a genocidal mass murderer (even in a world of illusions) justifies the means, while Maelle is stuck in her ridiculous Narnia and Verso's fate (and his subsequent depictions in the painted world) showcases he was tired of it all, only for his painted self to become an isolationist and two faced conman.

Living kills you in- and outside the painting
It just feels faster outside because time passes differently

A Life to Love

A Life to Huff Paint

gee i wunder which is le bad - smartest maellefag

it was all... le fake

Every single time a versofag tries to justify his decision, he just has to handwave entire layers of writing, huge chunks of lore and character moments. Versofag will ignore 90% of the game and then call you illiterate, because... uhh... you have to have very high IQ to understand bright colors!
I am sorry your reading is gay and retarded and has no gravitas.

what's wrong with killing the french

That's exactly why i took Verso's side, the father has totally convinced me. At the end of the game, he convinced me that everything wasn't real but in the head of the young girl. I'm not even sure magic is even involved at all in the game and I'm not even sure the family was really able to communicate in the painting, it's only Maelle's imagination at work.

I know some creatures tell you otherwise at some moments in the game, but you can't really trust creatures that are part of a fictive world.

I would've been fine with the whole "the world isn't actually the real world" twist if following that the story took the angle of "is it okay to erase all the people living there even if they are just creations of the painters". They clearly act like real life humans, the entire story turning into just family melodrama kind of ruined it for me.

I'll make it simple for you: Maellefags are either trannies who empathize with her living on the fantasy or teenagers who hate others telling them what todo even if for their benefit.

muh vidya story

kys

You're trying to insert logical rationale in this magic world. You ask, if they have feelings and thoughts, doesn't that mean they're real? When you could just as easily ask, they have feelings and thoughts, but are they real? It's a magic world, what rules of magic establish that such artificial life is real?
Let's say we go strictly by our rules. The painted people can be brought back anytime time by a painter, and Sciel and Lune are, so how do we frame this type of life that can be so easily toyed with? In Maelle's ending, will Maelle simply let them live a normal life? Will she let them suffer accidents or misery or other misfortunes? If they suddenly die, will she let them stay dead this time? A lot of people look from the angle of the life of the lumieriens in the prologue, but very few look from Verso's angle: an immortal person who's already the copy of another, brought to life to be what is essentially the plaything of his mother-painter. "I don't want this life, I don't want this life..."

I choose to destroy the world in the end.
The son was right.
Ignoring reality is retarded.

maellefags short circuiting when their 3 brain cells can't respond to a well thought out perspective

I chose to destroy the world so that I could kill a lot of people and then force Alicia to live as a cripple.
Bonus points if Aline continues to resent her family.

Ah yes, the Anon Babble intellectual who browses the video game board on Anon Babble to...not..talk about video games? you dumb kid?

there's going to be years of these retarded conversations for this mid ass game

The thing is that they can all just be recreated once Clea, Renoir and Aline release their shares of the Chroma. There is absolutely nothing stopping anyone from putting the world in the Canvas back in order after Verso's soul is freed as we don't see Renoir destroy the Canvas.

i straight up binged this game for the last 24 hours to arrive at act 3 and my mind's still kinda soup from staying up for so long coupled with the fact that nothing i've done even mattered cuz this is some painted world...???

does the game end after i face off with renoir at lumiere? i don't even feel like cleaning up the world map with the stuff you can access with flying anymore

grants painted Alicia the freedom of release

honors her wishes

refuses to do the same for Verso

What the fuck is her problem?

Escapism fags are incapable of letting go. They're still mad about Marche from FFT.

She's selfish.
That's why she won't unpaint Verso. She wants her idealized time in Lumiere, which would be incomplete without him.

Yeah, the main story part of act 3 is literally just the Lumiere dungeon. It can either be 1-2 hours long or over 20 hours long depending on how much side content you want to do.

Why does nobody ever talk about the fact that Maelle's ending is just condemning the last piece of her brother's soul to killing his little sister who he gave up his life to save?

the childish banalities must end, chuddies

I sides with Verso because I wanted to erase Sciel. Fuck that skank for dumping me and fuck your dead faggot husband.
Gtfo.

They clearly act like real life humans

because they were painted to mimic them. Its just a fake facade of their behavior that fools you. There isnt anything there and at the end of act 3 they are all erased already anyway.

People still do stormclock vs imperials so i guess we should all stop having fun and calling each other retarded.

There isnt anything there

You're basing this on literally nothing. Everything shows that they have the same qualia as people outside the painting.

Shouldn't have killed Gustave you little scheming prick.

guess i'll figure out how to go about in the weekend cuz im dead tired now but man i am seventy levels of existentially fucked up right now lol. what's this whole shebang about painters and writers and hiding the painting in general

Verso is literally Marche, so I sided with him.

Everything shows that they have the same qualia as people outside the painting.

The game doesnt indicate they have souls and their behavior is just a mimicry of real humans outside the painting. Clea even says it. They dont have souls, they arent sentiment and they dont matter.

killed Gustave

Renoir?

dangerously based

I did Maelle's ending first because I knew I was going to keep going for postgame content and NG+. Once I was completely satisfied that I was done with the game, I did Verso's.

You'd do well to remember that

Why is our sister's memory so shit? She didn't remember.

What do you mean? Renoir is a big part of why Verso is the correct ending

iirc she drowned in all that paint and was basically reborn for what felt like years

Teenagers and overly emotional retards with daddy issues seethe at the thought of Maelle's ending being portrayed as the bad one.

Every argument I've seen about the endings is always watered down to maelle vs verso but why has no one ever brought up the the perspective of the father, trying to piece his family back together?

Because W H Y should I give a fuck about some random depressed family over the hundreds of citizens in Lumeire. I'm not sacrificing them just so Grandpa gets his "family back"

Clea told her to calm the fuck down and resist Aline's chroma but Alicia was too fucking retarded and ended up getting mindwiped. Dumb bitch.

The character that has the memories of a real person is not real

Surely that means the ones that are completely made the fuck up are real!

This is Maellefags

This. she gets mind wiped by alines chroma i think.

dreds of citizens in Lumeire. I'm not sacrificing

they arent real and theyre already dead by the end.

I connect more with my Sims 2 fantasy than I care about my Mom and Dad

this is what you sound like. Where's that chart about how younger people care more about stupid shit like the climate versus their actual family members. E33 endings is the exact same situation happening here

Nobody is talking about souls here. I'm talking about their mental construct of reality, which they do have just like any other human.
Even in real life, a clone of a person is not the same being, it is his own mind. Painted people are not identical to those they were based after, but they're still a sapient being.

The confidence of going bra-less like that. I kneel.

His family effectively consists of evil demiurges responsible for creation of vast amount of suffering for no reason except as their fucking hobby.
They all deserve to be killed in some really bad way. Burning was good enough (although still not comparable to suffering that they have inflicted), unfortunately Writers failed to get most of them.

Because W H Y should I give a fuck about some random depressed family over the hundreds of citizens in Lumeire

This is why your viewpoint is incoherent, because the only thing at stake is Alicia's personal growth. At the point of the choice in the ending, everyone in Lumiere is already dead. There is absolutely nothing stopping Alicia from leaving the Canvas, getting over her issues and then coming back and repainting everything (LIKE SHE DOES IN HER OWN ENDING) when she can freely disengage herself from the fantasy.
Renoir agrees to not destroy the Canvas BEFORE you make the choice.

I too think the painted people should have rights.
But it's not exactly clear cut. Ask yourself this. How sophisticated would ChatGPT have to be before you'd seriously defend its rights and privilege to exist?

Nah, fuck Clea. She needs to get back in that canvas and sing.

that are completely made the fuck up

they arent real

my Sims 2 fantasy

How the fuck do you get filtered so hard by basic metaphysics? You're the same as the surface level bitches that complain that "nothing I do in Act 1 and 2 matters because they're fake actually".
You're missing the point. The story parallels Greek tragedy, the struggle and suffering of Lumierians for their existence is valid, their perception of the world is the same as people of flesh and blood perceive a world not made of chroma. The fates of these people are the playthings of arbitrary and flawed Greek gods, and they have no good endings. Alicia can reach catharsis in the end exactly because all this suffering and pain is real.

her succumb to her addictions

The funniest part about people describing Alicia's desire to stay in the painting as "addiction", is how they likely don't consider, that she is basically sentenced to be addicted to literal real opium in her real life, because burns like hers never really stop hurting.

For the last hour of the game, I saw it as my daughter being utterly addicted to her virtual reality helmet world

what gives you the right to decide what is okay and not okay for someone else to do with their life when it doesn't hurt anyone else
you can bitch like ohh noo my poor daughter is drug addicted, but what's the difference between that and if your own dad beat your ass and took away your computer and internet access for your own good because your addicted to shitposting here? or forcing a diet on you because you're addicted to fast food? or even getting in contact with your boss because he thinks you're overworking yourself?
there is no valid reason to control someone elses life just because it hurts your feelings, fact

There's still stormcloaks vs imperials discussions so yeah, buckle up becuase it can potentially last for decades.

Aline isn't directly controlling them as she is fighting Renoir but she paints her creations with certain characteristics. She likes to make life like recreations of reality and aparently she is very good at it to the point that her creations almost feel real. But they are not real. They are still painted creations. They have limits due to the limited nature of their creator. This isn't like us who were made by in the image of an all powerful Creator who imbued us with Free Will. Instead they are but copies of the real made by a Grieving Mother. They might look and act like the real, just like how modern AI Chatbots can pass the Turing Test yet they are still not real.

but they're still a sapient being.

no they arent. clea literally tells you that. If i make a bot that replicates your typing pattern is it you? No kek.
bras restrain her ability to work.

metaphysics

metaphysics wouldnt ascribe a soul or anything resembling it to inanimate objects that replicate human behaviors. The greeks pretty clearly split out a human soul as something different than just biological.

You ARE going to kill yourself right now for playing videogames right anon?
You need to disembowel yourself immediately for all the suffering you have caused in your videogames

I am trans btw, if that explains my opinion

what gives you the right to decide what is okay and not okay for someone else to do with their life when it doesn't hurt anyone else

Maelle is a minor and Renoir her father, he is still responsible for what she does.

versofag meltdown hour

It's a liberal thing. Studies show they generally tend to care least about close family than anything else.

It was not real

Then the game's entire story has zero stakes and amounts to a shitpost.

Clea's Bourgeon ate my damage dealer and i left with 2 buffers, wat do?

tend to care least about close family

Sounds like someone I know.

I can't believe Wendy stopped visiting Neverland...
Bros...

buff the Bourgeon

But it's not exactly clear cut. Ask yourself this. How sophisticated would ChatGPT have to be before you'd seriously defend its rights and privilege to exist?

This is a great question that nobody can answer right now. Thousands of years and millions of pages have argued this far more competently than either of us, there is no universal theory of consciousness yet. And technologically we're nowhere near the point where our constructs start poking holes and contradictions in our mental models, "AI" text predictors are a dead end.
Funniest shit is I like the Verso ending for being a perfect thematic capstone, but "Versofags" rage at me because I call their inane reductionism (muh Sims/videogame saves/NPCs) nonsense that devalues the game's story.

Ummmm he can just make another daughter lol it’s not that serious xD

And the very same study shows that Conservatives don't really give a fuck about life outside of their friends. Figures.

so if she was 2 years older you would swap sides?

every versofag is downplaying how fucking agonizing maelle's life is outside of the canvas

heavy burns

can't talk

most likely in a constant state of pain

compare that to the canvas where she can just live peacefully with family and friends until she dies out or whatever the fuck happens to people who stay too long inside

literally what the fuck is the point of leaving the canvas other than fulfilling renoir's/verso's selfish desire to have "muh family" back together?

muh Sims/videogame saves/NPCs) nonsense that devalues the game's story.

versochads only used that argument to counter muh sentinent lives argument. If you actually care about maelle you want the canvas to be destroyed and alicia kicked out.

The question asked in this study was "what do you think has inherent value", it was not about ranking preferences or making a scale of priorities.

Only terminally online edgy "based" retards think that not seeing value in your community, country, humanity, all life on the planet and existence as a whole, is redpilled and cool and shit. There is value in all things.

His family effectively consists of evil demiurges responsible for creation of vast amount of suffering for no reason except as their fucking hobby.

So you didn't play the game then, retard.

The heatmap shows that their moral circle extends to more than just their family, i.e. they also care about right and wrong done to the people of their country and so on.

muh sentinent lives argument.

Lumierians and even Gestrals are indeed sentient creatures, and that gives value and stakes to the story.

if you see a toddler crawling onto the tracks and you see that a train will hit them in 30 seconds if you don't do something wouldn't you say that you were partially responsible for its death?
even more so if you have some special interest and the baby dying there would have benefited you

Chose one, faggot

People inside the painting have consciousness and can experience reality, this means that this faggot family was torturing and massacring them for decades over their personal bullshit

People inside the painting are merely simulated, this means that the game's entire story has zero stakes and amounts to a shitpost

renoir's/verso's selfish desire to have "muh family" back together?

not wanting your daughter to die of overdose is selfish now

kek.

indeed sentient creatures

no they arent. its been proven over and over.

literally what the fuck is the point of leaving the canvas

Literally what the fuck is the point of leaving the pleasure-cube?

and that gives value and stakes to the story.

For example, you can only argue that it is immoral for Maelle to bring them back as fascimiles under her control and for her amusement, robbing them of their free will, instead of letting them rest. This doesn't apply if you insist they have always been automata without an inner mind.

you're the kind of parent to have a 400lb kid or a druggie unemployed loser of a son because you refuse to discipline and teach them how to be proper adults.

there's no way you retards actually think a child raising themselves is superior to a parent who is willing to acknowledge the ugly and real parts of life to help you overcome them.

Sentient does not equal "real".
What's "real" so to speak is more in the realms of philosophy and has to do with perspectives and stuff.
But the fact that they're sentient is pretty undeniable. It's not like the painters micromanage their every move. They made them, but once they let go the creations clearly exhibit their own thoughts and actions. At least until the painters decide to meddle again.

Clea even says it.

well to be fair clea is a fucking cunt

How sophisticated would ChatGPT have to be before you'd seriously defend its rights and privilege to exist?

infinitely more, to the point where having this discussion in this day and age is completely pointless

not wanting your daughter to die of overdose

She is bound to either become a literal opioid addict or kill herself IRL. Living with those burns is an actual physical torture, and as of that time period medicine knew no other strong painkillers.

Kek you are a brainlet.

Total moral cowardice.

Two, the story is about grief. The only reason painted people even exist is because Verso's soul is still painting. Renoir is 100% in the right, Verso's soul should be freed, which would naturally lead to the destruction the painted world and his family can actually move on and start living in reality.

Your opinion on this subject will worth anything only after you get fried to medium rare, faggot.

Can you tell me more about how medically advanced Fantasy France was back then?

who is willing to acknowledge the ugly and real parts of life to help you overcome them.

That doesn't happen though, Verso's ending shows that she's left alone to deal with her problems as Clea wanders of to go do her own thing and Renoir takes off with Aline to help her grieve and Alicia is left standing there by herself.

to the point where having this discussion in this day and age is completely pointless

Then pretend we're having the discussion 4000+ years from now or something.
Conceptually it's still an apt question. How close or far away from reality said hypothetical technically is, is honestly irrelevant.

not wanting your daughter to die of overdose is selfish now

comparing it to drug overdose is disingenuous as fuck, she is straight up living out an entire life there. At most its more comparable to being connected to virtual reality that is indistinguishable from reality

how to be proper adults.

oh yeah damn i'm going to be real disappointed that my kid isn't helping some cunt afford another yacht damn you're right, fat people and druggies never find partners or do anything right?

child

16 AND the perspective of growing up to be 16 twice

and so if she was 2 years older it'd all be fine?

sentient is pretty undeniable.

No they arent. Sentiment means the ability to perceive feelings. They dont, theyre just acting it out. They dont have an actual nervous system or mind to comprehend emotions.
based.
seething maelle ender.

painted people are real

Good one anon

comparing it to drug overdose is disingenuous as fuck,

renoir literally says being in the canvas too long has damaging effects on you

again, maelle enders literally cant read can they? the game makes it obvious at several points that being in the canvas is bad, that all the things in the canvas are just creations of verso, and they dont have souls. They point blank tell you this and autists still ignore it.

You didn't play the game. Why do you niggers even bother coming into threads for a game you didn't play.

Alicia would find love in the real world and move on if we’re being honest. She’s got a hole and dudes love holes. Doesn’t matter if she’s a burn victim missing an eyeball. Nothing a paper bag can’t fix.

the story is about grief

99.9% of the game the story is about trying to save the world the game happens in. It has zero mentions of le grief, and player has zero fucks to give about it. Then, in last 3 minutes it turns that it was all a dream and you should set things to how they could have been if the game's story didn't occur, by the way none of what you were doing mattered anyway.
This can only be called a literary shitpost, and pulling off something like this should instantly end any writer's career for good.

They dont, theyre just acting it out. They dont have an actual nervous system or mind to comprehend emotions.

So you're arguing that they're philosophical zombies?
If a Painter can use chroma to make a creature that behaves, acts, perceives their environment, reacts to stimuli, exactly like a human, what stops them from just giving them a conscious mind like a human? Chroma is creation magic.

Your argument doesn't hold water because they created new inventions, like the Lumina converter, and a Paintress religion after the Fracture. If they were automatons without an inner mind, they would only react to their environment, not have novel thoughts and ideas.

a robot says ouch when i hit it with a hammer

that means it understnads feelings and not just running a program that was designed by humans to mimic other humans

kek you are a brainlet.

No they arent. Sentiment means the ability to perceive feelings. They dont, theyre just acting it out. They don't have an actual nervous system or mind to comprehend emotions.

A 4th dimensional could say the same about us. Do you actually think that line of thinking holds up?

so maelle fags are saying he was right?

t. Koichi

Your IGN review was bad, dude.

Don't post about a game you didn't play schizo.

A 4th dimensional could say the same about us

No they wouldnt. Because we actually have the feelings to our environment. The painted things dont have a nervous system. They arent "feeling" anything. Theyre just acting our emotions.

seethe. I played the game and picked verso. The game tells you verso is right a dozen times including the actual ending.

The painted things dont have a nervous system.

They are just made from chroma instead of atoms, anon. Their world has different rules for its existence than ours, but it's consistent with them.

This poster has a very low IQ

versofags headcannon

sims

npc

puppet

fantasy

holy kek

you can't just kill thousands of sentient beings

How do you feel about this bucket?

Reminder: the liberal heat map has a higher scale because they are fundamentally more compassionate.

Because we actually have the feelings to our environment.

Prove it.
Only I have a conscious mind, you're all puppets. Prove that you're sentient to me right now in a way that doesn't rely on my perception.
Trying to argue against the sentience of the Lumierians ties you into knots with solipsist nonsense.

is the point where we pretend that if we could live safely and happily live in a virtual reality most people whos lives are miserable(like a serious burn victim for example) wouldn't take this opportunity?

The painted things dont have a nervous system

They have painted systems.
Similarly to how we only have have third-dimensional organs.

It's like as if a 4th dimensional being was to look into our world and then claim that we don't even have real feelings because we lack 4D Spirit-Cores or something.

Effectively. What fucking difference does it make?

I’m thinking I’m hungry

what's the difference between the "sentient" paintNPCs and a game's characters

Lumierians ties you into knots with solipsist nonsense.

game literally tells you they dont have souls

schizos: uhhh they have souls!

Common vocabulary error, they mean sapient, not sentient. Even Gestrals are sapient, just low IQ and very instinct driven.

YOU STEP ON BUGS AND YET YOU DIDN'T LIKE ME MURDERING YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY

CURIOUS

want to eat chicken

want to eat sciel's ass

damn i guess verso was right

So sentience doesn't matter?

But she poops from there anon

kek

These threads are always full of retards, I wonder if it's just bots or double digit niggers in these threads.
No one mention Alicia's growth and self-esteem, which is something Renoir wish for her. If you like Alicia, you'd pick Verso's ending because that's the one that doesn't invalidate her character growth by indulging herself in the same drug her mother was taking.
The endings are also literally Nietzsche's concepts of ubermensh and untermensch. The superhuman face the harsh reality and grows from it, the subhuman hide from reality and never grows, even regress. So if you think Maelle/Alicia's ending is the best, you are literal subhuman.

1. The game doesn't definitively answer the question of whether or not they have souls. I could agree that they don't but it's honestly aside the point because
2. It's entirely irrelevant whether or not they have souls. Would you have to have a "soul" to matter? Why?

and you think the bug people living in the painting would be of any importance to anyone after they had made a thousand paintings? a novel situation at first but the truth never changes: they are not real and will never be real

"the game tells you"

No such thing as "the game". Different characters have different opinions, and the fact that they can disagree with each other in their universe's logic means that it's an open topic. Clea's perspective is cold because she's ruthless and desensitized to using canvases as tools for war, Renoir and kid Verso empathize with their creation more, the game shows you that it's debatable.

Also nobody talks about souls here. They could have chroma as their "soul". Or maybe human "souls" are the piss of the 6th dimensional celestials that look at us like bugs and laugh. It doesn't matter.

all it takes is some paint to whoosh you in and out of existence

Maellefags always act as if she is bound to suffer in the real world. But she looks rather content or even happy in Verso's ending. As bitter sweet as it might be.
Meanwhile Maelle looks like she is on full cope abusing her godlike powers in her own ending, while Verso suffers something fierce before her very eyes.

hugs his daughter for what he thinks might be the last time

"ill leave the light on for you"

fuuuuuck

Almost everyone getting fromaged by the end of act 2 was probably a mercy. There's no reason why Aline can't go back to the canvas in Maelle's ending and have everything happen again, the painted world is beyond fucked either way.
The Dessendre family is also very messed up either way.
Grim.

Suffering builds character.

would be of any importance to anyone after they had made a thousand paintings?

In universe, most painters are jaded and desensitized to the existential horror of demiurge powers, yes. Except kid Verso, he's still naive.

If they mean sapience they shouldn't use use perceived empathy and feelings in their arguments.

The endings are also literally Nietzsche's concepts of ubermensh and untermensch.

Everything by that faggot is completely worthless, because he himself was a complete subhuman who is mogged even by his own fans. He is like some dyel who never lifted anything heavier than his limp dick writing a treatise on powerlifting.

there is none they are the exact same, we assume the "real" people are like us, and we see from the whole game that the people of luminaire are definitely like us
the question comes down to whether you can disconnect yourself from them purely because of the canvas, yes verso, no maelle

he thinks it's about ending faggotry

Moron.

>game literally tells you they dont have souls

What's that "game"? And why are you discussing it in E33 thread?

Nietzsche was a hack
BUT
I agree that the Verso ending is a perfect thematic capstone for the game's story as a tragedy, and the Maelle denial and continuation of the pain ending compliments it perfectly. The writers just clumsy with how they handled the implications of their worldbuilding and internal logic sometimes.
But I will bully self proclaimed "versofags" who keep saying le fake people meme, because it ruins the story, they have low IQ and don't know what they're talking about.

if anything that would just show that the painters are fucked up to be able to play god and inflict suffering so casually

Don't worry bud, they'll be doing it with your low-end JRPGs (all JRPGs made in Japan) too.

even if they are sentient creatures it doesn't matter
sciel states it outright, death isn't really death for them

whoops, meant

of course young verso will say that, he's a sliver of versos soul trapped and stuck painting. he's living on pure cope that anything is real because he has no choice in the matter as long as aline and alicia continue to obsess over the canvas and not let go. hence renoir trying to put an end to all the bullshit so the family can move on

Very interesting that you removed some of his dialogue there.

death isn't really death for them

Depends on if their personhood can be restored in a different canvas if a painter had a good enough impression of their essence.
My guess is a no, if their chroma is destroyed in a canvas, at best you can make a convincing clone but it'll be a different person.

for me

time to put down the train sets and playing make believe, chud

The painted things dont have a nervous system.

What are 15? Not only it's idiotic and juvenile you equate "sentience" to "nervous system" like a teenager who think he is smarter than everyone. You also didn't play the game and didn't read any journals to see that they are biologically indistinguishable from regular humans. Honestly you are making E33 dumber by posting your nonsensical babbling.

Bros I can’t beat Clea my reaction time is just too slow once she brings out the crazier Nevrons

characters in a story can disagree with each other

We know. There is no objective lorebook to define what is what.

he's living on pure cope that anything is real

Fanfiction.

is it explained how she fucked up and killed her brother? or just "she trusted the writers" and it caused a fire somehow and Verso sacrificed himself for her

Character that has everything to gain from you believing the painted people are soulless fakes tell you they are soulless fakes

No fucking way!! Imagine the IDF going "Yes Palestinians are in every way equal to us Israelis"

even though it's a far cry from actual painter powers, the lumierans were able to identify, capture, manipulate, and convert chroma into lumina and craft said lumina into all kinds of effects that could mimic painter powers even if to just a fraction of a fraction the way there

Still rather impressive no? They're effectively messing with the rules of the canvas by using lumina.

the game says this!!

it's actually just Clea

Dumbass retard.

This literally doesn't change anything

What would my man Gustave choose?

Character that has everything to gain from you believing the painted people are soulless fakes tell you they are soulless fakes

I genuinely believe a lot of posters here lack a theory of mind.
The concept of two characters in media disagreeing about something in their universe, or holding opinions that benefit their agenda, baffles them.

this is IN GAME MATERIAL which means the DEVS and WRITERS said it!

Explains the obsession with "canon" among autistics too.

If Verso hasn't let Gustave die our boy would've found a solution.

he's living on pure cope that anything is real

Verso is dead. I don't actually think his soul is capable of growth anymore. He merely reflects the thoughts, opinions, and at best acts of old verso.

the golden ending of peptalking Alicia into living her life outside the canvas without destroying the painting
Verso ruined everything

Yes, they basically have nascent reality editing powers. With the Lumina converter it gets even stronger, since they can stack Lumina, who knows what you can do if you collect enough chroma.

He would BTFO both Alicia and Aline out of the Canvas and negotiate with Renoire that he will keep them out of Lumiere and he will keep the Canvas.

People will take the first line as fact and ignore the context of him just sharing an opinion.

ah, you are retarded cattle
Ok

Verso ruined everything

'fraid so.

Same standard applies to you, retard.

they are just puppet

would've encouraged Alicia that she can succeed and prosper outside the canvas while not rejecting her and demanding to be exterminated

he could not be allowed to life

One of the things that don't sit well with me with Maelle's ending. Is that I can't possibly buy that the old Gustave would allow Maelle to stay in the painting if he had the full context.
The repainted Gustave is no doubt either being left in the dark, and or has been or is actively being manipulated.

That's grim.

there is somethign strangely attractive about Clea, like a tiger in the bushes waiting to strike. she can strike my balls any time and rip me to shreds

however the boy-soul-verso says "they do have souls, despite what she thinks" (referring to Clea). its all demiurge stuff. do you think we dont matter here on Earth, if we were created by ethereal beings? theres no correct answer because its not science

manipulated

the only manipulative cunt here is verso, glad hes cursed to play the piano forever

Renoir (forme d'amour) and Renoir (forme de peintre) are both the best character in the game

good work Verso you absolute tard

TBF do you not do the same when you pot plants all around your house and then forget to water them, or throw them out? or let them die? what about dogs? im sure theres a whole pain-pleasure drama between plants or plants that you arent even aware of

Renoir's 100% in the right. Verso is right by association even if he's a little (painted) wanker. Unfortunately Clea is also kind of a cunt so I can see how people who easily let emotions come before logic would side with the Maella/Alicia ending instead. But they're wrong.

libtards dont exist

lemao

plant

sentient

The original Maelle is gone anyways, so even if the new Gustave had the same perspective as the old one, Maelle is like an entirely different person now so he might not feel the same way about her to begin with.

based Dessendre-as-Olympians noticer

I find it interesting how (painted)Renoir doesn't resist (real)Renoir.
Granted that he might have just realized the futility and power disparity between them. But he kind of just tries to empathize to the core of (real)Renoir's wound, and then accepts (real)Renoir's action in erasing him as he says his final words.

I could be way off mark here. But in spite of how much of a paint-supremacist as (painted)Renoir appears to be. I kind of got the impression that he still respects (real)Renoir.

I hope you will never have a kid.

Gustave would have cucked out to Maelle cause she’s an emotionally manipulative bitch who doesn’t care about what’s best for Alicia. That’s why she kills Painted Alicia (wants nothing to do with her) and throws Verso letting Gustave die in his face after he gets mad at her for it.

You are literal cattle

not an argument versocuck-kun

its been coopted by twitterfag right wing grifters who use it as a platform to say "liberals care more about rocks than family"

the writers say the story doesn't have a clear right or wrong and they want players to engage with it and ask questions

meanwhile Anon Babble midwits

uuhhhm actually its obvious good ending is good because.. uuhhh.. muh colors and muh themes. and nothing was ever real because it just wasn't okay?

n-not an argument

Retvrn to reddit you retarded faggot
Of course is not an argument, you are LITERAL CATTLE

they honestly do

I think libs and chuds should have sex and expand humanity's compassion

keep coping

There is no argument on which ending is good, there are only fucking retards and normal people
You can argue about the existence of the people in the canvas, not about the endings

Bro you're asking conservatives to accurately interpret data

i think that would be a lot for him to suddenly take in considering everything that he missed

I dont even know what words mean

lmao

You can argue about the existence of the people in the canvas, not about the endings

Even if the painted people are fully human, they're worth less than unpainted people as unpainted people can't be brought back to life. Thus, the wellbeing of an unpainted person will always be more valuable than that of an unpainted one. As Alicia's ending shows, painteds can be brought back regardless the amount of in-Canvas time since death.

Imagine giving your life to save your sister just for her to use that life to FORCE you into painting endlessly without a single break until she dies from addiction and grief. Verso's life was so tragic and it only got worse in the Maelle ending.

It is fairly obvious she is controlling everyone

it was not about ranking preferences or making a scale of priorities.

It absolutely is though, read the text of the study. Participants were given a set number of units to allocate where they though moral value resided. Your attempts to obfuscate it show you either didn't read the study at all or are acting in bad faith.
To summarize it as "liberals value rocks more than their family" is 100% accurate to the study's methodology and conclusion.

What is this with zoomers who played the game while scrolling tiktoks. Canvas people can only be brought back when their chroma is fresh and a painter can gather it and a painter has to know the essense of a person. Alicia physically reacher and takes Sciel and Lune's chroma. And she can only bring them after Verso gives her lesson .

So is this just the "can AI ever be considered sapient" debate, but with paintings? I have not played the game.

Why are you this retarded while simultaneously not noticing tho

And conservatives would let the world burn and most of humanity to suffer or perish. For as long as their friends and family were exempt.

You don't actually care about anything, you care about appearing to care about things. For all your supposed empathy you've done nothing to help anyone, not even yourself.

Participants were given a set number of units to allocate where they though moral value resided

That's a different question and not related to the heatmap.

nobody talks like this

I accept your concession, now fuck off to tiktok zoom-zoom.

unfortunately, for the sake of the story, the golden option must be destroyed, so strife and conflict can arise

the painters were right to hate the writers. always creating conflict :0

If you have to resort to writing fanfiction, you lost, tard.

it's okay they're worth less, then can be brought back *makes sure they can't be brought back*

??

Canvas people can only be brought back when their chroma is fresh and a painter can gather it and a painter has to know the essense of a person.

Well that means that Maelle's ending is even more wrong because she brings back Pierre who she barely knew and was dead for years. She's just playing with puppets.

So is this just the "can AI ever be considered sapient" debate, but with paintings?

No. But it's kind of a question that pops up when questioning some of the morals.

IRLmaxers, Total Dream Death has been achieved.

Yes, probably, which would add to the tragedy and make it more kino.

Absolutely, he deserves to have his family back.

reality is what you make of it bro, these fictional people are totally real (in my mind)

btw I cut my dick off, I'm a real woman now

maellefags are literal trannies

have to make up imaginary Maellefags in his mind to argue against to defend his shit ending

And Versofags preach against delusions lmao.

Sometimes we must whoooo so that we can later wheeee

cope harder
kek

She can just paint herself into another canvas if she needs relief, it's hardly a long term problem for her personally.

How long are we going to have this same thread for?

Considering that the debate about what is reality and what makes a life a life has been ongoing for millennia now, quite a while.

Are you new here?

okay time to post lune

Clea is objectively correct and morally righteous in every action she takes so I see no problem taking her at her word.

The point here is that they claim that they care about rocks and dust the same way they care about their immediate family. It's not about ascribing different values to it, but yes they did say that a rock is as valuable as a human life.

i could undyke jennifer french btw

Being fuckable isn't a valid argument

"Trees are as important as people" is not being more compassionate, it means you're a faggot retard.

So when was the last time you went down to the homeless shelter and helped them out?

She reminds me enough of my mother that I have trouble thinking of her like that. It's very weird.

That's literally not what they found. Even liberals put more "moral units" towards humans than non-humans.

Your mother is fuckable

The average Verso-fag everyone.

I only cared about Maelle so I did what she wanted to do.

She can be very persuasive.

Maelle's dead. That's Alicia

Couldn't you just leave the painting to its own devices and visit occasionally?

I only cared about jennifer english so i undyke her

Yes? Of course you could.

what is reality and what makes a life a life

you words good, i couldn't think of how to phrase that
i think it comes down to whether you can make the disconnect between us and them because of the canvas
in game there is no difference between the family and the people of luminaire, they intentionally don't state whether or not there's a difference between them because of the painting process, and we obviously don't know whether or not a soul truely exists for "real" people, or if there's a deity-like figure above us in the way that the painters are to the canvas
imagine if the game instead had the family just be explicitly stated to be gods who can create other worlds where they can use the extent of their god powers but die spending time there instead of having painting and canvases as the plot devices
and yeah of course there's a lot more that can impact the decision based on your own emotions like the feeling of responsibility towards your children, what would you be willing to do for loved ones, whether suicide is acceptable in any situation, etc

no you cannot do that just because

Yeah. It's a classic case of a game being forced into only bad endings just for the story to feel darker.

virtual reality helmet world

Already confirmed by director himself that people in the canvas are real, sentient beings. No literacy. Kys.

She says that it's not the same Verso as their brother (true), not that he's not sentient or has no soul.

The point is that Maelle doesn't want to and lies that she could.

She's afraid of losing her own slice of heaven, she can't let go at all.

Christmas.

Versofags have no response to this because they usually go with the kid agreeing to stop painting in his ending.

couldn't you just do fent occasionally and not ruin your life?

Wow almost like the story has nuance and it's obvious that different Painters have different perspective, some think the creations aren't as valid as real people (Clea, Renoir), while others see them as sentient beings (young Verso, Alicia).

I don't care how attached /you/ the player are to the fake inhabitants of that fake world but my daughter is very real and wanting the best for health and safety will always take priority over fake virtual nonsense

If you cared about your daughter you would listen to her instead of being an asshole wanting to genocide a whole world full of sentient people. You are the reason your daughter decided to stay especially when she spent 16 years living among the "barbies" with her memory of you wiped out.

Why don't they just paint over Alicia's wounds IRL, are they stupid?

Gustave would 100% find some middle ground, it's literally why Verso had him killed, so that he could take over the "leader" role and manipulate Maelle.

Yes it's great. Why remove that part?

because Maellefags are retarded

Does entering a canvas have a high chance of just outright killing you every time you do it? I'm surprised Renoir and Aline have gotten to be so old then.

Didn't Renoir had an entire rant about how overuse of the canvas can lead to death?
Like, she would literally be exchanging fentanyl for heroin.

It's le fiction and le not real.

You are forgetting that it's literal WORLD WITH MAGIC where you can LITERALLY ENTER and INTERACT with very emotional, very sentient beings in what is essentially an alternate universe.

with her memory of you wiped out.

Aline did that, not Renoir.

/thread

What's wrong with dying in a place you like surrounded by people you like, instead of slaving away looking like a ghoul that cant talk trapped in your own house?

i meant to say wasting not slaving wtf