Spyro plays, looks, sounds, holds up, and is designed much better than Mario 64

Spyro plays, looks, sounds, holds up, and is designed much better than Mario 64

no one ever brings it up (rightfully) because that still isn't impressive enough to be talked about decades later

Mario 64 didn't invent anything that didn't already exist and it didn't improve things to the point of setting modern standards

constantly gets sucked off as the best game of all time

It's time to admit 100% of SM64's reputation comes from nostalgia and from the fact it was many kids' first 3D game experience purely because of its brand, not because of any objective or historical qualities

Mario has more movement than Spyro.

OP here. You're right, I didn't consider that. We can shut down this thread now. Don't bother replying now.

It's all Youtube video essayist ecelebs, anon. History is retroactively written.

And Spyro has more levels, almost as if this random quantity>quality category isn't enough to create a meaningful difference

(i'm not op) yes mario has more schmoovement possibilities, but spyro is still superior in almost every other sense. better art direction, music, characters, level design, etc.
unlike spyro the levels in mario 64 don't even fully take advantage of the killer moveset they gave him.

don't get me wrong I love both games. but if you asked me which one I would rather play RIGHT NOW, it would be spyro

not the remakes though those are trash

(Also not OP)
While I enjoyed Spyro more recently in a replay then mario 64, which could also be over exposure, spyro feels more like a 2d game set in a 3d setting and mario 64 is more sandbox-y, not seen before the 3d era.
Spyro has problems and those problems are solved the same way for each person, nothing in the move set has anything outside "for this challenge you need to be using these 2 moves in a row" shit.

Both are fun, but Mario 64 is a bigger deal AND spyro is more fun to play today, but only the first one IN MY OPINION.

I hated the ps1/ps2 era platformers where the first one was a fun focused platform game and then 2 added more side gameplay shit with different characters and 3 went overboard with the concept where the base platforming became a side activity like all the other activities.

spyro feels more like a 2d game set in a 3d setting

If you had said Crash I'd agree with you, but spyro feels like a full fledged 3D adventure to me. Yes it has a lot more linear levels, but there are some that are just as big and explorey as mario's

Spyro 2 I think I liked slightly better than 1. I agree that the parts where you play as his friends suck ass though. And I usually end up skipping spyro 3 when I replay them

If Spyro is better why is there no Spyro 64?

because insomniac were scared nintendymoto would sue them

Not him, but there's almost no verticality in Spyro compared to SM64. You can't climb. You can't walljump. The platforming isn't as interesting. SM64 even does gliding better through the wing cap. All you really do in Spyro is run around breathing fire while collectathoning ala Banjo Kazooie. Both Spyro and Banjo Kazooie are worse games because their movesets are so simplistic and artless. Spyro has hardly any momentum.

This is more of a symptom of how Nintendo fans essentially put every Nintendo game on a pillar and then shit on anything not Nintendo.

me because I'm gay and fat and italian

The real question is why do you like sucking 40 year old sweaty cocks?

But is it fun

I actually kinda agree with this, i played the games for the first time last year and they reminded me more of Mario 3D world than something like Ape Escape or a rare game

Thinking on it, Spyro looks way better and it's not even comparable but gameplay wise Spyro iirc is super rudimentary, you just dash and jump around. I think Mario is the superior game. If i had a choice i'd play Spyro out of nostalgia though

Yes, actually.
Spyro is.
I played both recently.

Dunno if its better but Spyro does feel more fun and spyro2 is probably the best spyro game, 3 brings the kangaroo gimmick at the same time simplified for 100%, 1 might be better than 3.

there's almost no verticality in Spyro compared to SM64.

The entire game, Spyro 1 especially is based around climbing up and then gliding to reach entire portions of the level and hidden collectables.

Your game's legacy is a turd oh a footlong bread, pal

Bubsy 3D MOGS both btw

spyro plays

like ass

holds up

I tried playing it a couple weeks ago and its shit, dropped it halfway out of sheer boredom. my m64 playthrough was a blast all the way to 120 stars.

designed much better

not even close

mario 64 didnt invent anything

literally the first game with camera controls

it didnt set modern standards

STILL has the best controls in any 3d platformer

OP is a bonafide retard. spyro isnt half the game banjo kazooie is, forget about mario 64.

muh nostalgia

I can fucking assure you without 90s nostalgia not a single person would give a shit about shovelware like spyro

Fucking loved games from the past. I replay them every year, yet, for some reason I can't do that with the latest games. I think its because if take the general audience in mind, therefore the game is more "stupid proof" whereas the previous games were more for the developing minds of children.

best controls in any 3d platformer

Why do m64fags say this? Its just objectively not true. SM Sunshine improved on it in every way and sunshine is laughed at today.

spyro isnt half the game banjo kazooie is, forget about mario 64

Really not helping disprove the fact that only tendies with nostalgia think SM64 is good

Sunshine is laughed at because of its level design, not its controls. Also, Sunshine's collision detection is quite glitchy.

Spyro games got remastered on modern consoles with basically zero gameplay changes and millions of people still enjoyed playing them for the first time

If SM64 got rereleased today with no gameplay changes, everyone would see just how dogshit it is, that's why it will never happen

SM64 got rereleased today with no gameplay changes

Technically it did, it was just bundled with Sunshine and Galaxy. I do honestly think Nintendo could get away with re-releasing 64 and it still selling a million+ copies.

This already happened with significantly downgraded controls and it sold 11 million copies.

I love 64 ds, but its also a flag ship title for one of the best selling consoles of all time.

Spyro is just boring.
You play as a dragon and you cant even fly.
Mario has more verticality than a fucking dragon.

Consoles don't sell games. Games sell consoles.

Tell that to Horizon Zero Dawn

DS was extremely cheap, portable and had an amazing line up of games.
Mario All Stars was the second time 64 was actually re-released, it was limited time, 3 games for one and it sold less than 64 DS.

Spyro looks better but feels worse to control, and the collectibles aren't satisfying to collect.

/thread
+ Mario 64 is much better designed, better music (probably the most iconic OST of all time), the desert, cave and town levels in particular have a spooky atmosphere, and the game just has more lore and discussion around it that Syprocucks could only dream of.

It's time to admit blah blah blah

Nope, Mario 64 will forever sit atop the throne of 3D platformer, and shitposting on Anon Babble will never change this.

You know it doesn't qualify as trolling if you're actually mad, right?

Despite this mario is remembered fondly and played by many, while spyro is worthless dead slop
Funny how that works

Is it remembered fondly?
Or is that just something people assert at least once a month.

Notice how 64fags will just default back to Mario acrobatics. Do these fags really clap like seals whenever Mario does a triple jump and a long jump?

Not him, but there's almost no verticality in Spyro compared to SM64. You can't climb. You can't walljump.

Delusional, there's like 4-5 places total in Mario 64 where you can actually use those

The platforming isn't as interesting.

It was more fun since the game wasn't stopping you to do non-platforming gimmick shit every 2 minutes like diving underwater or changing your size

SM64 even does gliding better through the wing cap. All you really do in Spyro is run around breathing fire while collectathoning ala Banjo Kazooie.

Extremely delusional, the wing cap trivializes platforming whereas Spyro's gliding has skill involved

Both Spyro and Banjo Kazooie are worse games because their movesets are so simplistic and artless.

You have decided the moveset is the end all be all of a platformer simply because it's the only thing Mario has going for it, even though there's literally nowhere to use it

Spyro has hardly any momentum.

Which is a good thing because it makes his movement predictable and controllable without stopping instead of an inconsistent nightmare that requires you to stop and adjust for every jump

>Spyro didn't invent anything that didn't already exist and it didn't improve things to the point of setting modern standards

FTFY

lmao

what can spyro do besides run, jump and glide?

mario can triple jump, long jump, back flip jump, side flip jump, wall jump, slide forwards, kick slide, he also has power ups like metal, invisible and flying

Spyro's movement is simple but that allows you to go wild and enter a flow state of fucking around, like shooting and driving in GTA

Mario's movement is more complex but all it does is hamper your ability to fuck around, like shooting in Stalker or driving in a realistic racing sim, in a dedicated game the complexity is fine but for a sandbox like GTA all they'd do is restrict the fun

I'm not trolling, Mario 64 is an objectively better game.
Spyro is barren, empty and washed out, even in that masquerading screenshot from the OP.

posts a 21 year old game

Spyro is barren, empty

It's literally a hub. OP is a massive read and should show an actual Spyro level as comparison.

The games are too different to really compare.
I'll use this post to say spyro 2 is worse than 1 though.

Mario 64 didn't invent anything that didn't already exist

Oh sweet summer child

I played Spyro for the first time year ago using Duckstation. It was great.

feels worse to control

Spyro feels amazing to control

and the collectibles aren't satisfying to collect

Literally some of the most satisfying collectibles in any game ever

level wide glint capped to never go below 1px in size so you can see them from anywhere

gems fly and roll around

you pick them up just by going near them and Sparx gets them for you

super satisfying animation and sound effects

never ask you to think in moon logic to get them all

crashing pots and baskets to get them is orgasmic with how good it looks and feels

iconic post level tally of all the gems you collected being transferred to your total collection by flying over the screen

You people say the darndest things

OP literally explained why that is the case

looks better

Mario 64 hub is a giant castle with tonnes of cool rooms, paintings, easter eggs and lore that has been passionately discussed and debated for 30 years.

satisfying collectibles

kill yourself

And you only need the basic jump to beat the game, and the powerups are fucking situational dogshit that's useless outside the one intended purpose

Spyro has 6 hubs; Artisans, Peace Keepers, Magic Crafters, Beast Makers and Dream weavers and Gnasty's World (this one is actually just a small platform though and barely counts).
They're actually extremely well done, larger than the castle. Though Spyro 2's hubs overshadow 1's to a hilarious degree.

Autistic kids being scared of "liminal spaces" doesn't count

Yeah, it's both incorrect and hypocritical to say that. Spyro, just like every other 3D platformer of its style, exists because of SM64.

Spyro does all of that compared to Mario 64 except play better. It's pretty clunky control wise compared to Mario.

has zoomer opinions

uses zoomer memes

Checks out, you have no clue what you're talking about

Spyro controls incredibly gracefully to this day, SM64 is genuinely hard to get into without nostalgia with how clunky the camera and controls are

if your argument for a game being bad hinges on it being 'clunky' maybe kill yourself

You are full of shit.

Spyro feels amazing to control

In which regard? Spyro doesn't feel like Mario, in SM64 you have a lot of moves to parkour around levels in a satisfying way. As far as I'm aware Spyro merely gallops and trots around, a simple jump, and a glide.

the most satisfying collectibles in any game

the jewels and gemstones that magnetize to you as you trot along?

you pick them up just by going near them

so that's a yes.

gems fly and roll around

It might be a bit of eye candy, but it lacks the punch and weight of collectibles in Mario. You have to get directly to them, and you have a wide range of movement capabilities to see it through.

never ask you to think in moon logic to get them all

If I pay extra could I maybe get some moon logic to get them

crashing pots and baskets to get them looks and feels good

this I can agree with, it's quite like collectibles in Banjo-Kazooie. However I still attest to Mario 64. You people say the darndest things

they don't count because i said so

spyro is literally babies first platformer

In Spyro extra movement mechanics are done in levels. Examnples:
+ this thing will send you flying
+ this one is just an elevator, but it requires accurate timing to use properly
+ interacting with this thing will make you supercharged and move super fast (and if you plan your running route properly you will able to use 2-3 supercharges and then if you jump off the ramp you will be able to reach secret place)
When you don't get to use all moves at any time, it has its benefits since you will feel more novelty effect when you discover new movement gimmick interaction on new level. But, it can done like this both ways. In Pseudoregalia for example, you have them all as moves, but you unlocks those moves gradually by progressing through the game, so you keep both novelty effect and abilkity to have a palette of moves usable at all times. Kinda best of both worlds I guess?

That's actually Mario 64, the game is trivially easy where the only challenges are wrestling with the bad game design on some of the more retarded stars

both are fine games but spyros world is just boring and samey, sm64 has soul. people who say spyro was better are just trying to be different, like saying betamax was better than vhs

Spyro doesn't feel like Mario, in SM64 you have a lot of moves to parkour around levels in a satisfying way.

Which you never need to use and can in fact fuck you over with how inconsistent they are

As far as I'm aware Spyro merely gallops and trots around, a simple jump, and a glide.

Which were tuned to perfection, quality > quantity

so that's a yes.

Yes, not having to fiddle around with directly touching the collectibles every time is satisfying

You have to get directly to them, and you have a wide range of movement capabilities to see it through.

You have to get directly to the them in Spyro as well, they just don't ask you to touch them when you get there like the tiny 2D billboards coins in Mario but are instead 3D and intuitive to collect

If I pay extra could I maybe get some moon logic to get them

???

Why would you expose yourself as a nostalgiafag this willingly

NTA, but yeah. Spyro is much better designed; you must charge, use flame and glide through the entire game. The entire time you're expected to make use of your movement.
Very finely tuned experience.

you are experiencing them wrongly

It's better than Rascal at least

side flips and wall jumps feel better in sunshine but the lack of long jump is a clear downgrade, and FLUDD hover nozzle/spin jump are not as fun to use IMO. though really its a damn close comparison

no, everyone with brain cells agrees sunshine has good controls AND good level design. it gets shit on for blue coin padding, glitchyness and a few meme shine sprites that were just designed horribly (lily pad, pachinko)

nigger you havent even played mario 64

changing your size

literally not a thing in mario 64, at all. tiny huge does not count, the stage itself is changing not mario.

wing cap trivializes platforming

is only available in a few levels, and is on a timer, and also requires skill and timing to use correctly

ackshually stiff boring controls are a good thing beca-

yep youre just a mentally ill snoy troon thirdie.

spyro flow state

like gta

playstation fags truly have the most normie, pleb taste of all time

Mario movement is more fluid than Spyro due to the fact that Mario's movement is analog while Spyro uses the D-Pad and L/R combo which is a movement setup that even some early PS2 games used for some reason.

blue coin padding and a few meme shine sprites

These are level design issues.

There's also the problem of not having many levels, which is why this filler content exists.

blue coins are completely optional, the bad shines are like 2% of the game and also completely optional. but youre right thats there too few of them.

mom bought me a playstation but I didnt have an n64

this is still a core aspect of my identity 3 decades later and I will passionately defend my 6/10 games over objective masterpieces that redefined gaming as a whole to strangers on the internet

I mean you're phrasing it like that, but there's no "Dedicated 30 year Crash Bandicoot Shilling Operation" or even a "Dedicated 30 year Banjo Kazooie Shilling operation".
It's specifically Mario 64 that has this issue that you are demonstrating and projecting onto other people.

Maybe... game good?

I mean if it was just the case that "game good" we wouldn't have had a precession of people dedicating countless man hours of shilling to achieve what most other gen 5 3d platformers get passively.

mom bought me a playstation but I didnt have an n64

I remember thinking which one to get and the answer was overwhelmingly PSX, unless I get n64 for few games and play PSX at my friends.

Even within the main shines you have stuff like repetitive Shadow Mario stages and the Sand Bird red coins with its glitchy surface. You avoid some jank, but not all of it.

this entire thread is a spyro shilling operation. tendies arent going around making threads seething about how 64 rapes lara and crash because thats just self evident.

Do you feel any shame for being this brazenly dishonest?

dont forget all the copy pasted fights with the squid or piranhas. yeah sunshine is very flawed and clearly rushed, but Ill be damned if the controls and moveset and presentation dont make it a great game anyway. plus its got the best hub world ever and I cant think of any other 3d platformer that goes hard on a theme and pulls it off like sunshine.

Spyro is shit for one reason. Having to chase around the fast little faggots. I quit playing because of that.

Im seeing more Spyro posts this year than the decade prior. Such a forced shill game that purely advertised it's way to sales.

inconsistent

you never played it

wing cap (only in 4 levels total, 2 of which are mini-stages designed exclusively around it and nothing else) "trivalizes platforming"

takes no skill despite requiring use of momentum to get anywhere

spyro's gliding "takes skill" despite simply being the holding of a button to fall slower

Mentally ill.

all these opinions from broccoli headed zoomers whose fucking parents probably weren't born when super mario 64 and spyro were relevant games

everyone played mario 64, that's why it's remembered. spyro, just like crash bandicoot, was a sad temu replacement mario 64 for playstation kids

be me

mario 64 is fun

spyro is fun as well

feels good my parents werent poor fags in the 90s so I never became a seething console war tard

ACKSHUALLY quest 64 is better than FFVII

this is what you sound like OP

Delusional, there's like 4-5 places total in Mario 64 where you can actually use those

You can walljunp of nearly any wall in the game.....

Nintendo fans are and always have been the biggest retarded fanboys to every exist. They make apple fanboys look good.

Isn't impressive enough

There has literally never been another game that looks as good as Spyro 1 at its best.

Spyro the Dragon was the second game developed by Insomniac Games,[4] following the release of their first game, Disruptor, in December 1996.

Spyro began development AFTER Mario 64 released, you stupid ape. The only fucking 3D platfomers before Mario 64 is that weird ass PS1 japanese game with the first person camera. It very much set the standards for 3D plaformers, so much that the entire generation was filled with Mario 64 clones (like Spyro)
OP is a faggot

I'm a ps1 fan and big spyro fan

Mario obviously has better character controller/core gameplay/movement/psychics
It also perfected it before anyone else

Mario 64 is just a Floating Runner clone

Funnily enough none of those make the game good, you could transplant them to Bubsy 3D and it'd still be a shit ugly unfun game

HOLY FUCKKK THIS GENERIC CASTLE AND GREEN GRASS IS THE MOST MIND BLOWING BEAUTIFUL SHIT IVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE

you have never matured past the age of 5

He's right. As an example, 95% of Croc threads is seething over how Miyamoto raped Agronaut, remaining 5% being miserable attempts at discussing the remaster. Meanwhile, you can easily get people talking about Mario 64 without resorting to involving other franchises, e.g. .

Production of Super Mario 64 began on September 7, 1994, at Nintendo's Entertainment Analysis & Development division, and concluded on May 20, 1996

That game released Jan 1996. So they only had a couple months to rip off Floating Runner. Not to mention that game controls nothing like Mario 64 and is in fact using tank controls and not a large map but small corridors.

How many people went out of their way to make more levels for Spyro just because they liked the way one of the games played?

Sorry dude, the jump from Floating Runner to Mario 64 is smaller than the jump from Mario 64 to Spyro

I really liked Gex 3

Spyro has three games chock full of fantastic professionally made levels, Mario 64 has 15 levels total all of which are shit, you can see why people would want to create new levels for a game like that

It's like asking why only Bethesda games get so many unofficial patches and fixes, only Bethesda games need them

95% of Croc threads is seething over how Miyamoto raped Agronaut

Don't forget the seething over Banjo being more popular.

better music

Lol no

yeah Mario 64 is visually repulsive.
if any artists actually did work on the game they did a horrible job.

he fell for the brand meme

Nice job proving OP right dumbass

people make more levels for "worse" games because... because the games are worse

No, they make more levels for the game with better mechanics.

Pretty sure 80% of Croc threads, are screaming that nobody is allowed to have liked Croc from mentally ill fanboys (Specifically because the game wasn't on the n64, something that should be a concern to literally nobody at this point), 15% bitching that GOG/CDProjekt are faggots for pulling an epic and buying exclusivity and 5% people talking about the game.
Really don't know what weird point you're trying to make with the two slapped on replies at the front end of your post.

(Specifically because the game wasn't on the n64, something that should be a concern to literally nobody at this point)

Aaaand there we go.

.. because the original didn't utilize those mechanics in its sparse prototype tier levels, fan content doesn't somehow make the actual game better, otherwise base game Roblox is the best game of all time

spyro isnt even the best 3d platformer on ps1. mario 64 is still the best 3d platformer on ANY system even 30 years later. pretty we crazy we got OOT and ffvii in the same era too which have also remained the greatest in their genre, and its not even close. gen 5 was truly the peak.

It's not playstation fags, they had it, people that liked it will say they do, people that don't ignore them

Saturn fags it's the same case

PC fags same case

5th gen idorts have genuinely no reason to care they have the best of everything to pick from

Hell Banjofags are probably more preoccupied with the fact the best way to play Kazooie and Tooie are stuck on the xbox 360

But I'm not allowed to point out pic related having a full on pant filling blowout over the stupid crocodile game from 1997 screaming that nobody is allowed to have liked it

Say it again without choking on your tears.

Nigga you're the one that's crying, everyone else either didn't care, thought it was neat, or called GOG racial slurs for buying exclusivity.

everyone always praises the movement in SM64

yet they conveniently ignore the shit level design and camera that make it moot

Really activates your almonds

Mario 64 music is pretty much the Sgt Pepper of vidya, everyone knows the entire soundtrack track for track
I can't even remember any of the Spyro music and I've played the first game twice, like I couldn't even vaguely hum a single track from the game, because it's completely forgettable

Dad, I wanna ask Santa for a Nintendo 64 with Mario!

But son, do you want it because of nostalgia and brand recognition or because of its objective and historical qualities?

I'm 12

Wrong answer, here's purple dragon

More, yes.
Better, fuck no.
That slow-ass turning is dogshit.

Mario 64 music is pretty much the Sgt Pepper of vidya, everyone knows the entire soundtrack track for track

The American cultural bubble is hilarious to me

No fuck you faggot

It's not even an "American cultural bubble" thing.
M64 is just generic youtube gaming video background noise.

You are literally proving OP's point here

mario 64 is still the best 3d platformer on ANY system even 30 years later

This is how you know SM64's reputation is entirely due to nostalgia

Yet controls worse

mario 64 is still the best 3d platformer on ANY system even 30 years later

Lol, did you even play any of the modern ones. Like Demon Turf, Dungeons of Hinterberg, Cavern of Dreams, Pseudoregalia, Corn Kids 64, Metro Gravity, The Big Catch Tacklebox.

Both are excellent games. Both were way ahead of their time.
That said, SM64 was the only game to really explore the third dimension in terms of gameplay.
To this day, no other game has come close to SM64's natural acrobatics and vertical level design. Which is just astonishing.
Hiw the fuck did they manage to do that do well on the first fucking try? It shouldn't be possible.

You can jump anywhere you want in Minecraft, doesn't make it a fucking platformer does it

Yes it trivializes platforming by allowing you to fly anywhere, meanwhile Spyro gliding requires you to reach a height, only lets you glide down, and relies on you to time the jump + glide just right to get maximum air without falling off the platform, to stop if you're overshooting, and in 3's case to hover at just the right moment to reach a ledge you otherwise wouldn't be able to glide to

Minecraft's parkour tower map are way more challenging platforming-wise than M64 tho.

Filtered by a hard skill gated optional goal

I can't even remember any of the Spyro music

Then you've either got some incredibly shit taste in music or you're just larping

That said, SM64 was the only game to really explore the third dimension in terms of gameplay.

To this day, no other game has come close to SM64's natural acrobatics and vertical level design. Which is just astonishing.

Hiw the fuck did they manage to do that do well on the first fucking try? It shouldn't be possible.

Utter delusion, not only did SM64 not do any of that, games that actually have done that have been made over and over again, and no one cared about them because they didn't have Mario's brand attached to them

Name one game

the desert, cave and town levels in particular have a spooky atmosphere

nice way to out yourself as a liminal space faggot

Left looks better than right. Right is all pastel colors, looks like it's trying to appeal to foids. You can see much of the world, but there doesn't appear to be anything in it except what looks like half-eater apples and some kind of crystal structures or something, who knows what the fuck that's supposed to be. Spyro looks detailed, but the world around him doesn't, which is jarring. Meanwhile, left is full of primary colors, making it more eye-catching, and in just this one starting point you can see trees, signposts, NPCs, enemies, a cannon and even a star. The presence of climbable trees, cannons that can shoot you into the air, varying elevations and a floating island point to Mario being a platformer. In Spyro's picture, I can't see shit. There appears to be some kind of elevated spot on the left but there's a land bridge of some kind connecting it. I guess Spyro himself is standing on something. It looks like less of a platformer than Kingdom Hearts.

Left also has better movement, no platformer has ever topped it. Spyro is very floaty and slow. You can go look up videos right now, it doesn't look satisfying at all. I will admit the sound of Spyro's feet hitting the ground is very nice. I'm not an ASMR guy, but something about it feels nice.

ok Mario has btter movement, but

Theres no BUT, its a platformer, Mario still feels fun, mechanics are solid, and it allows for crazy stuff that you see in no-glitch speedruns. Spyro is fun but the movement is way more limited, theres no room for experimentation.

Mario gives you no reason to experiment, ever, I genuinely don't understand what people are referring to when they talk about SM64's control freedom because I beat the game 100% and not once did I feel the need to pull off some complex maneuver or get the feel that I'm pulling off something difficult and skillful, the way I did in Mario 3D World's crown levels, or even some more complex Spyro levels like Tree Tops

Do they think not having any other games to play on the N64 and being forced to play the same game over and over and looking for ways to make it fun was part of the game design?

Mario gives you no reason to experiment, ever,

Why do you say that, you have a lot of different moves, and can use them wherever. There's never not a reason to experiment. Try watching a Super Mario 64 speedrun, they are captivating.

Left also has better movement, no platformer has ever topped it. Spyro is very floaty and slow. You can go look up videos right now, it doesn't look satisfying at all

Why watch a video when you can PLAY the game and feel how much better Spyro feels to control, his movement and the levels were designed around allowing you to chain all the major actions together and never having to stop, meanwhile SM64 lets you do cool tricks.. on the open grass field, when you get to the actual obstacles and platforming challenges, the most straightforward option is usually the most efficient one because trying to trick jump your way through them is likely to result in misjudging the height or the depth due to the shitty camera and having to retry something you could've just gone through on your first try (also either way you'll constantly be interrupted either to line up your jumps or to do some irrelevant shit like ride a Plesiosaur or wait for a platform to make its way back to you)

No, it's on the game designers to DESIGN a GAME which nudges the players into experiencing the most it has to offer, self-imposed challenges can't be attributed to the game

the levels were designed around allowing you to chain all the major actions together and never having to stop

agreed, SM64 is fucking fantastic

The actual reason why there's barely any Spyro rom hacking is because rom hacking ps1 games is a bitch. There is some level creation happening for Spyro, but it's in its infancy.

feel the need

Well, no. Its a game that kids can play, you dont NEED to do crazy stuff, but you can, unlile Spyro. I admit Tree Top might be more challenging than 64, but

Mario released in 96

Spyro released in 98

And even with that into consideration (the fact thay Spyro learned the lesson of how 3d platformers should work), it isnt as fun to control

You're helpless if you need your hand held through a game that gives you the arsenal Super Mario 64 does.

agreed, SM64 is fucking fantastic

That is not the case for any one minute segment of any SM64 level, let alone an entire level, especially since the game keeps throwing you out of them after each star

Meanwhile, left is full of primary colors

Left is literally just a collection of stock assets which Nintendo cobbled together.

You illiterate or something? I'm saying I need the game to challenge me to use its moveset, which SM64 never does

Rayman 2 sold a million copies and probably mogs M64 in terms of coherent world design, but it's never brought up in such threads. It makes me sad.

lmao, you're nuts
watch this for 60 seconds
youtube.com/watch?v=eGN-txiQh8g?t=82

it isnt as fun to control

I prefer charging and gliding over 64's acrobatics. As not only does the game actually design itself around them, but no other platformer has built itself off these design principles.

try playing the game competently
Spyro could never

Are you actually bringing up speed tranny shit?

Spyro literally floats, which is not ideal for a platformer, and most of the game is running around. In Mario you can spam jumps and dive and flip around, it's fun just being able to do that. You say the game wasn't designed for you to make full use of those mechanics, and that's true, but that doesn't mean they don't ever help you. Have you never seen a speedrun? SM64 is quite possibly the most popular speedrunning game and it's for a good reason. One of Anon Babble's darling e-celebs is a guy who does nothing but break SM64 down for speed/challenge runners.

Cope faggot, played both games as a kid, can't remember a single Spyro track, and this is a general sentiment

>designed much better than Mario 64

lmao no

just a single minute of your time, Spyro would waste your time much more than that

Dont fool yourself Spyro is ass. If you were saying Pacman World or Rayman or Crash even something like Gex or Rocket Robot on Wheels maybe you'd have a point but Spyro is a boring game.

I've watched 64 speed runs. Just think it's hilarious that you're using something which was obviously unintended by the developers in response.

can't remember a single Spyro track

If your taste in music is that shit, then I actually feel sorry for you lol.

If they didn't want you to experiment with the moveset they wouldn't have implemented it, and would have stuck invisible walls everywhere.

They designed the game to be beaten without the fancy tricks. Everyone here has been telling you that but you for whatever reason cannot wrap your head around a simple concept.
Yes, Mario acrobatics feel great to pull off. Bing bing wahoo, but they were more or less just created to show off the n64 remote.

Based
They crave validation
Who fucking cares to do console warring faggotry over old ass consoles just enjoy them

They designed the game to be beaten without the fancy tricks.

so that idiots like you can make it through the game, they ALSO designed the game to be beaten with fancy tricks. as evidenced

Mario 64 wrote the cheatsheat that Spyro copied, you're just another dumb revisionist mad that your favourite game isn't everyone else's favourite game, it's mediocre, remember SM64 was Nintendo's first try, and they repeatedly outdid Spyro with each latter 3d Mario title

Spyro does have an unique flavor to it, not saying its a bad game. But the whole idea of platforming is acrobatics and manuvering, Spyro tried to do something else but many (like me) feel isnt as engaging. I still like both, and I bought the Spyro remake hoping they would make a new one

Cause this is Anon Babble where autistic faggots start arguments for validation

as evidenced

Yes, you can beat the game is you meticulously study it and spend hours everyday playing it as fast as possible.
Can you stop crying?

None of the western Sony-backed platformers were ever particularly any good except maybe the Sly Cooper games and that's stretching it.
Spyro's soundtracks are shit, by the way, Stewart Copeland is a talented drummer and The Police were a good band but his Spyro soundtracks are insanely bland, very much like a TV show soundtrack of which he made many of specially during the time.

This, I love Spyro and OP is 100% correct in that it mogs Mario 64 in terms of presentation but the truth is that the gameplay of 64 is just way fucking better

There's honestly nothing funnier to me than the weird bizarro world lunatics like you live in where literally only nintendo invented the concepts of 3D and that literally all existing aspects of game design were completely unapplicable or suddenly became invented by Nintendo.
It's honestly as dumb as the patent trolling shit they're getting up to with that one creature catching game they're obscenely pissed at or them patenting a bunch of basic havoc physics features

I bought the Spyro remake hoping they would make a new one
Yeah I don't think that'll ever happen, sad to say. Well here's hoping DK (which is basically Odyssey 2) is fun

the gameplay of 64 is just way fucking better

It's not

Spyro soundtracks are insanely bland

You're trying way too hard lol

In Mario you can spam jumps and dive and flip around, it's fun just being able to do that

But is actually counterintuitive in the actual levels since it just means you'll jump into a pit or slide down the mountain

Have you never seen a speedrun?

I don't care about self-imposed challenges in a game design discussion, especially speedrunning

SM64 is quite possibly the most popular speedrunning game and it's for a good reason.

That reason being the fact it was the only game a lot of autists had to play for a good chunk of their childhood which made them unhealthily hyperfixate on it, there's the reason the speedrunning community is majority mentally ill people

they ALSO designed the game to be beaten with fancy tricks

They didn't otherwise they would've put something in the game to actually require them, like the new Mario games do, for example the timed wall jump level in Wonder is one of my favorites in the whole game, SM64 has nothing like that for any of its advanced moves

truth is that the gameplay of 64 is just way fucking better

Its controls like ass with a clunky camera, Spyro is way more fluid to control

it was the only game a lot of autists had to play for a good chunk of their childhood

They're in their 30s now.
They've been doing this for 30 years now.
Like there's wiggle room for Mario 64 DS
The entire infrastructure is near entirely built around pretending it's interesting

the Sly Cooper games

You are a furfag so your opinion is automatically discarded.
Thanks for playing.

and would have stuck invisible walls everywhere.

Uh oh

Those are bugs.
... not that Mario64 doesn't have a shitton of *intended* invisible walls everywhere tho.

you have never matured past the age of 5

Time to stop self projecting anon

Imagine this thread if Spyro controls weren't so sluggish. Playing it on keyboard was hell...
Still I used to it quite fast and loved the game.
Especially level design, "pastel colors", music, and the general aesthetics and vibe of it.
Don't know much about M64, but from screenshots it looks kinda meh. But I'm gonna try it anyway.

Bananza its pretty much the reason Im getting a Switch 2 on launch. I enjoyed Astrobot but Im starving for 3D plarformers

You can tell almost everyone is this thread is a zoomer because nobody that actually grew up with either game would act like this much of a child at their age.

can't remember a single Spyro track, and this is a general sentiment

That's mostly because Mario had only 15 levels and 15 tracks, that you were forced to play and hear over and over again, while Spyro had 3x the levels and tracks

It's a similar phenomenon to the N64 having a handful of smash hit games because the library was so limited, whereas no single game could truly stand out and shine on the PS1 regardless of quality due to the sheer rich variety of options and choices

they should dumb it down for me

yikes

Whoa careful anon, he might tell you about how cool and mature he is for going on a 30 year long tantrum because someone said crash bandicoot rules and mario drools in pre-k.

see

ironic

Boy do I have some really unfortunate news for you, and, maybe fortunate. A little bit.

But is actually counterintuitive in the actual levels since it just means you'll jump into a pit or slide down the mountain

Oh, you're the kind of person who plays as safe as possible even at the expense of fun.

It's about mastering the game and seeing how far you can push it. Mario 64 has a lot of advanced techniques, so it's got a high skill ceiling and it's fun to see how high you can climb to that ceiling.
Spryo's only advanced technique is "flutter at the end of your glide", and you master that in the first world.

Spyro plays, looks, sounds, holds up, and is designed much better than Mario 64

I won't even read beyond this due to how wrong it is.

Anon, who do you think keeps Mario 64 discussion alive after all these years? It's all speedrun autists.

Spyro is objectively the better game by nearly every metric, but autists hyperfixate on superfluous movement tech, speedrun strats, glitches and exploits, and of course nostalgia too. Autists have put tens of thousands of hours into Mario 64 because for them, mastering the game doesn't mean beating it, it means mastering trick jumps, shortcuts, backwards long jumps, wall clipping, wrong warping, travelling to parallel dimensions, not pressing A, etc. Spyro is a polished game not filled with horrendous bugs like that so autists can't get any fun out of it.

"Mario 64 just has the better controls and moveset, look at all the speedruns!!"

look at the speedruns

they're all glitching and abusing a badly coded game instead of utilizing the moveset

Demon Turf

Playing this only makes the other anon's opinon look right. Terrible example.

It's about mastering the game and seeing how far you can push it.

It's not, nothing in the game itself is built with that in mind, like it was mentioned multiple times before just because you felt the need to play like that because you had nothing else to play doesn't somehow make that experience the intended game design

I know there's a lot of manchildren but not this many all at once.
Anyways I thought spyro was better because dragons are cool and really that's all that matters, what you thought was cool.

both are gay and if you took any time to complete them as an adult you should kill yourself

Anon you're on what's left of internet after google's holocaust at all commenting on the quality of Super Mario 64 without glazing it.
Yes there is that many, and yes all at once located entirely within this thread.

As opposed to what?

All I'm getting from this is that Mario 64 is funner to spectate than Spyro due to its higher skill ceiling, which I suppose is true. Sometimes I forget that the "gamers" of today watch games more than they actually play them.

Pikman

what's wrong with the remakes?

And Spyro has sexier girls

Banjo is better than both

Being fair to gamers of today I can't think of anything more boring than actually sitting down and playing Mario 64, like, specifically with regards to playing a video game.

Spyro designed so much better.

Do you even know half the glitches? It wasn't playtested at all.

nta but for the most part I like the remakes but a lot of the designs for the dragons are too obviously designed by furfags

literally the first game with camera controls

hideo kojima invented camera retard

So people list all these different movement options with Mario 64, which is true, but idgaf because I think Spyro is more fun

what can spyro do besides run, jump, glide?

mario can jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, slide, slide, he can also jump while metal or invisible

Sasuga Jumpman.

if everyone was as retarded as you, xenoblade 2 would only have one attack per character because sasuga attackman

Crash > Spyro > Mario > Sonic

show me a commercially successful third-person action game that existed before SM64

RENT FREE

nobody thinks or cares about your country btw

Yet it will stay in your mind because its true

Spyro is the better game. This shouldn't even be a debate in an era where games were developing further in a year than we've managed in a decade, and Spyro had two years over Mario.

They're different genres. Mario is a platformer/collectathon game. Spyro is an adventure/collectathon game. I enjoy both.

Mario 64: 1996

Spyro: 1998

If you just wanted a thread talking about Spyro games then that's fine, but you're being a retarded nigger about it. You should go back and rethink how to start an opening post.

Comparing a 1996 game to a 1998

Banjo is a much more fair comparison, but I get the feeling you're not exactly trying to be honest.

hey, this is just like your other threads where you try to convince people that sonic adventure 1 was better than sm64! no luck with that, eh?

At least SA1 is better than Spyro and Crash

Fpbp, they hated him because he told the truth, etc.
OP is a consolefag trying to start a console war.

I wish I could agree with that statement.

i played both when i was a kid and spyro was boring and the atmosphere was very gay and depressing

But is actually counterintuitive in the actual levels since it just means you'll jump into a pit or slide down the mountain

Not usually. It usually doesn't matter either way whether you do it or not. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's not. But people will do it anyways because it's fun. Have you ever watched someone play SM64 for the first time? Even when all they have to do is run forward and drop into a cannon, they'll hop, dive and slide their way there, because it's fun. And sometimes doing those stunts actually is the most efficient way of progressing, it's just not always obvious/intended. For this reason, people will try when given the opportunity, and if it doesn't work they'll give up once they get bored and just progress the safe way. No biggie.

I don't care about self-imposed challenges in a game design discussion, especially speedrunning

If the game forced you to be a parkour god then only autists would like the game. People like having that freedom of movement, they don't like being told they have to be a speedtranny just to beat the game. A game is fun because you hit buttons and see your character do the thing you want them to do, not because the game gives you a star for overcoming a challenge. This is why fighting games aren't popular, you have to beat the shit out of the controller to just get your character to move and then you throw out a punch or kick you didn't mean to and get stunlocked. That's not fun. This is also why 99% of gamers play I Want To Be The Guy for 5 minutes and then go, "Heh, that's funny," and never touch it again.

That reason being the fact it was the only game a lot of autists had to play for a good chunk of their childhood

Probably not since the N64 wasn't that popular and there's a ton of popular games from the 90s that aren't popular speedrun games.

nothing in the game itself is built with that in mind

It doesn't matter.

BUT HAVE YOU WATCHED SOMEONE PRETEND MARIO 64 IS INTERESTING?

It's always this talking point with you guys

30fps by default

new version of the music is bad

old version of the music uses an extremely poor quality rip that needs to be either modded to use a lossless rip from the internet or everything else needs to be lowered in volume

graphics were outsourced to pajeets who used default UE4 assets/values everywhere with zero care for the original art style

GEMS DON'T SPARKLE FROM AFAR. They have the sparkle effect on them, but you need to be close enough for the gems to actually load in which defeats the purpose. You can test this yourself in the far end of Cliff Town, you can't see the sparkles on the other side of the map because it's too far away. The devs tried to work around this by backporting Sparx's "point to treasure" ability from Year of the Dragon to all games and making it available at the start, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem that you can't see gems from far away, it fucks up a lot of the design because of this.

spoiler

Holy shit, I didn't even notice that when I played since the locations of all the gems are burned into my memory. How could they fuck up one of the most important parts of the first game and not fix it?

I mean it falls into the track record of them missing the point, See: All of Crash Bandicoot 8: It's about Incompetence

The Beatles are British, retard.

Mario 64 is tedious to replay, Spyro is clearly more fun. Don't care about the movement when the gameplay constantly kicks you of the the stage and makes you replay the same parts of the levels over and over. I'd rather play Mario Sunshine since at least the different shines change the levels more.

Always thought the levels in SM64 were very meh. They kind of lack a strong theme and sometimes come off as random geometry haphazardly thrown together. The worst offenders like Tick Tock Clock, Lethal Lava Land or Rainbow Ride are basically just linear obstacle courses with side paths halfheartedly thrown in, literal "I did this in 30 minutes in a level editor" tier design.
You can tell they were insecure over it too after the fact, considering Sunshine has the opposite problem where every location is plausible and may even be seen from the hub/other levels but it's all so devoid of direction and so bland from a gameplay standpoint they use linear sublevels as a crutch for half the stars.
Mario himself carries the game hard, dude feels like a superball in that game and the momentum-focused nature of his moveset is 99% of what makes the game interesting, especially so long-term.
Spyro and basically every other 3D platformer after it beat it in presentation and arguably level design, but I think it's difficult to argue that these games are better because the main characters' movement design are often capped in pretty deliberate ways.

I always chuckle every time I see one of these threads, OP genuinely, REALLY had this fucking chip on his shoulder for 30 fucking years about (some random game) living in Super Mario 64's shadow.
Like those advertisements you'd see in gaming magazines where some half-assed mascot is supposed to be so badass and hardcore he beats up legally distinct Mario, Sonic, Lara Croft, etc. is OP's bible.

I'm not personally invested in Spyro, they're better games than SM64 but even like that I'd say they aren't deserving of the glazings SM64 gets, I'm tired of the same autists constantly holding it up as some important game landmark just because they had nothing else to play as kids

Fpbp

mario 64 still living rent free in every shitstation thirdie's head all these years later

notice how its not even possible to have a thread about a sony platformer without screaming and crying about a nintendo game?

Both of your statements are false. Lol Spyro controls like shit compared to Mario.

On an open plain maybe, in the actual game Spyro allows for much more fun movement and gameplay than Mario's retarded levels and camera

You just described what makes sm64 so good. It's not obssessed with asthetics and as a result it's pure obstacle course platforming goodness.

Sounds like

Gameplay > muh atmosphere

Nah outside a handful of areas in a handful of levels the game is simply not fun. Maybe 10% is well designed the other 90% is tedious filler.

Spyro is better.

This is entirely false. The classic games and Generations are modded to hell and back becase the base game is good enough to be a base template, just like Super Mario 64

STILL has the best controls in any 3d platformer

don't be retarded i was actually shocked when I replayed 64 immediately after odyssey of how shit the controls were compared to what I was just playing

I had Mario 64 before I had a PlayStation and I would still pick a replay of Crash or Spyro any day. I get bored of SM64 every single time I try to replay it because it's repetitive because way too many of the stars overlap.

It's time to admit 100% of SM64's reputation comes from nostalgia

no not really. there is nintendie nostalgia at play certainly but that doesn't change the fact that it's seen as a technically rich game.

Spyro wouldn't exist without SM64. Everyone knows this, which is why OP compared Spyro to it instead of Jumping Flash or whatever retards want to pretend deserves credit over SM64 for setting the standard for 3D platformers. I know you're bothered it's for a Nintendo system, but that fact didn't bother Insomniac.

I know you're bothered it's for a Nintendo system

Projecting

spyro is dogshit tho. here's the tier list faggot:
Mario 64 > Crash > Banjo Kazooie >= Okami > Jak and Daxter > Sly Cooper >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spyro and then basically all the other shit that came after it like Ratchet and Clank whatever who cares

the secondary elements of mario 64 leave me cold, I have no love for the look of it or really any of the levels, but the basic core of the game piloting mario has such an amazing fun factor that it overpowers any of its competition.

270+ posts and people just seething that Nintendo has Disneyesque magic. Like with Disney the only way they could fumble is if they go woke. They won't, so seethe

You can't even walk straight in Mario 64. Go ahead and actually try it. Only like one bong reviewer pointed this out when it first came out and for some reason everyone pretends otherwise

I have never seen anyone give a shit over Spiro, it was all about Crash

hey we need to make sure that our character is really fun to control and has a lot of different athletic abilities that allow for player expression

it's insane how many western platformers didn't really get this.

It's more just been "people" seething about other people not pretending Super Mario 64 gives you chocolate coated blowjobs.

Crash

Why do you even bother mentioning that puece of shit?
SM64 and Spyro 1-3 are all excellent games. Crash was GARBAGE.

I'm just saying no one gives a fuck about Spyro, he looks even more lame and gay than Mario despite being a fucking dragon

Spyro 1 is the only good Spyro game. Crash 1 and 2 are at least mostly good except the final warp room in Crash 2 feels unfinished. Crash 3 fell for the gimmick meme and Spyro 2/3 fell for the mini-game meme making them not very fun games.

Trouble with the trolley, eh?

Mario has better gameplay

64 is the undisputed king. Spyro is a collectathon before it's a platformer, the platforming is ass as fuck. Mario shits into spaghetti and serves it to spyro for lunch, spyro eats it and licks his lips "OH MARIO MORE PLZ MORE, WOAH I'M GONNA CUM"

You can definitely make a good platforming experience and still make it somewhat interesting to look at or even just think about in a spatial sense. Both these things contribute towards making a level interesting, and in fact I'd argue that both facets build onto one another. Mario 64 is a lot of stone boxes hovering in the middle of nowhere with some whipping, some oscillating between two positions and some spinning in place, with random junctions for different stars. I'd say a good half of the levels are function over form to the point of detriment.
My point is more that for all these weaknesses, very few platforming games in that console generation really attempted a movement-first kind of 3D platformer. Most of them were games with deliberately gimped movement focused on exploration (i.e. Banjo or Spyro) or linear adventure platformers focused on setpieces and per-level gimmicks (i.e. Rayman 2 or Conker). It's difficult to argue for Spyro as a superior game because what it attempts is so different from Mario 64.