Renoir gomagge'd everyone at the end of Act 2...

they always pretend like they aren't real as if act 1 never happened

Act I doesn't change their lack of reality. Oh no I saw the little play of the props. And then a massive recontextualization of the events happens.
They're fake people in an universe that is at the whims of any painter, painted to play a role.

it was all a dream

actually at first it wasnt a dream, come live in a house with me after I killed thousands of people

why cant clea just paint an oc donut steel that cant defeated and kick put alicia out of the painting

Why does renoir apologize to a fake verso and his fake family, then offer him oblivion? As a fake being he would already have oblivion. It seems like the most reliable character knows something about the script you don't

tldr + idgaf + you're game a shit + sega rally championship better

Anon, they don't even have souls, they are made of the exact same chroma as their clothes, you take it away and there's nothing left.

It's paint magic, I ain't gotta explain shit.
They have sentience and they have continuity but they still need to leech off a painter to stay alive, when Aline left they all died, only Alicia could bring back a few and ONLY because she caught the chroma as it was being dissolved.
They are all parasites and the Verso ending is objectively correct.

show me your soul and how its not made of atoms like your body and clothes

but they still need to leech off a painter to stay alive, when Aline left they all died

No? Renoir intentionally killed them.

As a fake being he would already have oblivion.

Complete ass pull. No, a fake being wouldn't already have oblivion. Existing is not sinonimous with being real. They are copies within a world the game itself calls mirrorr, delusion, make-belief, and other very flattering names.

That's just arguing semantics.

Hi, I'm Verso and this is my soul, it's a mystical, metaphysical entity that exists even if my body is dead.

You can't have Renoir killing people matter and them not being people at the same time. If you choose your cope of painted people not being real you reduce the depth of the story to that of a puddle.

Did you not listen to painted Alicia's letter, retardo? Aline was willing them into existence, with Aline gone they have nobody to keep them alive, at least until Alicia awoke her painter powers.

OMELETTE DU GOMAGGE

The depth of the story lies in the struggle of the Dessendres with grief, not in the reality of Verso's canvas.

By your logic, a child in the womb is a parasite. They only rely on the Painters to exist because the Painters chose to create them in the first place. Painters created them, gave them sentience and emotion, then condemned them for the harm they do to their creators.

If God were real and decided to unmake you, would it matter if he told you it was okay because you weren't divine or didn't have a soul? You wouldn't accept that, and it doesn't make your sense of self any less valid. Should all of the characters in Nier: Replicant have accepted death because they were Replicants without souls, in order to restore their creators? Is it their responsibility to give their lives so their creators can live?

Simple, she made it up.

Only the piece of versos soul needed to stay in the painting, it would also be there if verso never died and no one would consider that a moral conundrum. If you asked verso about his piece of soul in the painting and how its suffering he'd probably call you a retard. Its just literalized symbolism about how a piece of you exists in the things you create. It's not a tragedy. Its not something the painted beings aren't supposed to have.

if you disagree, you're a faggot

Aline was keeping them alive by preventing Renoir from erasing them. The countdown was how long until her power would fail completely; it was a warning to the populace. Aline's leaving the Canvas let Renoir erase them all without resistance. You deeply misunderstood that situation anon.

Switch Verso and Renoir and Maelle and Bacon, or turn her hair white, that's the psycho version.

Oh my fucking god you're the retard with the god argument, kill yourself.

It's both. It's the family's inability to deal with grief, and that grief driving them to do terrible things to an entire population that they created. Lune's look in Verso's ending makes it clear that the game wants you to think about what you're doing to the Painted people.

The experience of being a rock and the experience of being unborn is the same because those are non sentient states. It's oblivion. You couldn't offer oblivion to a non sentient being, thats my only point.

Aline's leaving the Canvas let Renoir erase them all without resistance.

Other way around, after they beat the paintress she's weak enough that Renoir can finally get all the chroma and only then send her home.
Aline only goes back after the final gommage.

Verso is slightly better because he went ahead and ended the whole thing, Renoir was ok with his teenage daughter lying to him.

Bacon Alicia went to the painting to try to help, she didn't intend to be reborn as Maelle, painted Alicia knew what must be done and didn't try to stop it

i will kill this entire magical universe because of one family member

from a utilitarian perspective, the dessendres are all absolutely psychos (both endings are evil btw)

I wouldn't say the endings are evil, rather that all the painters in either ending continue to be evil.

Why do all of these threads boil down to just arguing about the ending and whether the painted people are real or not. I cant tell if the game is that deep or not

Maybe they should bring that up before the last act of the story thats the shortest

how many games did you shut down and uninstall after being done with them? this is also killing the entire universe of a *virtual* world

utilitarian

But that's a terrible philosophy, emotions DO matter. And I'd doom a small city of maybe not real people for my family.

How is Renoir not even on top? You're the faggot.

By your logic, a child in the womb is a parasite.

A baby in the womb is a human in a certain development state. You could call it a parasite if you're a rabbid feminist that doesn't consider that is how all complex life operates - it's dependant on being nurtured/fed by it's similar beings, until it develops itself enough to be self-sufficient. A parasite feeds on things that are different to itself, you don't have tapeworms that feed on tapeworms. But baby humans are fed by humans and kittens are fed by cats.

Lumierians may only live as parasites to Verso's soul or the energy of other painters, which are things different than what they are.

God argument

Doesn't matter, never a concept explored in the game.

Verso POV:

Maelle apologists will fight for AI-rights in the future and doom us all

and that grief driving them to do terrible things to an entire population that they created

Not really. Once you realize you're a canvas and all the gommages can be undone at any moment, it doesn't feel like a terrible thing anymore. It's whatever.

Lune's look in Verso's ending makes it clear that the game wants you to think about what you're doing to the Painted people.

I just laughed at her desu

Based on what? The game literally explicitly says that he's the one erasing them. There's not really much room for interpretation here.

Yeah, and the final gommage happens right before he sends aline home, because he can finally claim the rest of the chroma.
It's not

wife is back home I can finally erase this shit

it's

I can finally erase this shit and I can send my wife back home

The characters in the games we play only have a facsimile of sentience. In the logic of this world, the characters themselves are actually sentient.

Because major points of contention are ambigious, and it means everything for how you interpret about the ending. The only good ending is if you think the painted characters weren't sentient, which is contradicted by dialogue, BUT all characters act as if it were true in critical confrontations where somebody can bring it up. So getting passed that, now its a "it was all a dream" story and everything you invested in before the dessandre family never mattered despite comprising most of the story's length. So its either a happy ending to a bad story or a good story with a terrible non sensical ending where you're meant to care about the fate of selfish or genocidal characters.

the dev was talking about the gestral river reincarnations, anon

>wife is back home I can finally erase this shit

It's literally this one as stated in Act III.

and everything you invested in before the dessandre family never mattered despite comprising most of the story's length

Most of the story is about Maelle and Verso, you know, the most relevant dessendres.

I can't be the only one who spent the whole game looking at her ass, right?

So, the fact that the Painted people are "others" makes them disposable? The Painted people are reliant on the Painters, but wouldn't exist without them choosing to create them in the first place. They're never self-sufficient because they're incapable of it, but the Painters are responsible for their creation. That doesn't give them the right to end their existences.

Doesn't matter, never a concept explored in the game.

I'm pretty confident Lune literally refers to Maelle as a god after she's revealed as a Paintress, and part of Maelle's argument to Renoir is that they have a responsibility to keep them alive (even if she's really doing it for her selfish desire for escapism.)

It may have made them less meaningful to you, but the game clearly intends for you to think about what you're doing to them. The fact that you didn't engage with that doesn't mean it's not a theme.

whew, this head cannon

I cheered when Verso said this to Maelle

Nope, when he meets Alicia he says he's finally been able to send aline home.
And it's mentioned several times he could only do that after claiming all the chroma from her, which is what the final gommage was for.

consider

Lumierians may only live as parasites to Verso's soul

Are you suggesting all the paintings need to be burned once each Painter dies?

He literally congratulates Maelle on getting her out of the Canvas when you meet in Act 3. Show me any dialog that supports what you're saying.

In the case that I say that, painted verso isnt real and his depression isnt real and any empathy you have for him is wasted. And yeah, maelle persists through the whole story but she's half alicia by the ending where her problems as alicia take precedent, but im not complaining about that part though.

They're never self-sufficient because they're incapable of it, but the Painters are responsible for their creation. That doesn't give them the right to end their existences.

If they're never self sufficient because that's not a stage possible to their development, they aren't entitled to existance. They may only exist at the mercy of the painters. They are sub-beings.

part of Maelle's argument to Renoir is that they have a responsibility to keep them alive

I don't recall where that argument shows up, about a painter's responsibility towards his creations. Could you point me to the dialogue?

It may have made them less meaningful to you

How could it not have been made less meaningful to me? Gommages are first introduced as this terrible end of life, a fated year. By the end of the story, gommage is just energy changing places, and painters can repaint anyone that ever existed back. That is a radical shift in perspective. I don't see how that radical shift won't change how you perceive life in the canvas.

Maelle's ending, yes

I kill myself and everyone lives

everyone dies anyway because my dad and sister aren't having it

when he meets Alicia he says he's finally been able to send aline home

Literally doesn't, he thanks Alicia for getting the job done that he himself couldn't.

Why is it all chatGPT?

It's funny because same VA and also he is gay IRL

everyone dies anyway because my dad and sister aren't having it

Clea doesn't care, Renoir suicides. Good end.

because he believed Maelle when she told him she'll stay for a little bit in the canvas

cause u dumb

better final fantasy

better putting an END to your FANTASY climax, even

There's a timeline this was ffxvi and it revitalized faith in the brand and sold gazillions more.

Renoir gomagge'd everyone at the end of Act 2.

why

I can't imagine the layers of autism you must be on to think Renoir believe Maelle in that scene.

they don't have sentience. they were all scripted by Verso's soul. sentient beings don't disappear as soon as the painter stops paintining

Chroma, took away all of aline's chroma and kicked her out (for like five irl minutes).

the ending right now if you pick verso's ending

the ending in a little while if you pick alicia's ending

:)

He didn't. He just wants to trust her to do her own thing and hopefully come out the other end, after noticing forcing the matter with his wife had catastrophic effects. Primarily, that Alicia no longer cares about them and would sooner ACK as Maelle.

I don't recall where that argument shows up, about a painter's responsibility towards his creations. Could you point me to the dialogue?

Fair enough. Reviewing it, she talks more about the place being her home/family than about responsibility. I probably inserted some of my point of view there. As you'd expect, she talks more about how destroying the canvas would harm her personally, since she, like the other two, are looking at this from a selfish point of view.

They were scripted by Aline, but they live in Verso's soul energy

No he didn't.

>Sentient beings don't disappear as soon as you destroy the thing they're living in

See, Alicia herself doesn't talk about any responsibility towards living beings or sentience. It's all about her personal attachments to particular "people" from the canvas (Esquie, Lune, Monoco, Sciel, and I used quotes because two of these aren't exactly people).

Renoir is too busy dying to do shit lol. Lost his son, daughter and very likely his wife AGAIN for being an unreasonable piece of garbage. Be a better dad/husband in the next life I guess LOL.

There's no indication that they're scripted. Characters act in ways that the Painters don't expect. Some, at least, are created with certain personality traits, like Renoir and Verso, being abstracted versions of their real world counterparts, but they're not literally going through scripted motions, or at least that's not how I interpreted it.

sentient beings don't disappear as soon as the painter stops paintining

If we ever reached a point of having true AI, as in sentient artificial intelligence, simply shutting off the machine that the AI runs on then turning it back on later wouldn't invalidate its sentience. We stop existing when we die, when our bodies/brains stop functioning. Your existence being at the behest of external forces doesn't invalidate it.

It would feel pretty weird for any of these characters to start discussing painted ethics granted

Most of her conversation with renoir is

what about ME?

haven't I suffered enough?

I've lost so much

She's on a really narcissistic power trip where she's the only one who matters in the world.

A little for the Painters. Decades, maybe centuries for the inhabitants of the Canvas. Maelle's ending alone takes place several years after the ending, within the Canvas.

half of aliciafags simply delight in the imagined torment of verso

the other half simply delight in the imagined torment of their father figure

Never stop aliciabros

Several years after, huh? She seems to really care about Lumiere.

Relying on anything Clea says

She's a massive cunt and smells
She wouldn't even care if Alicia just went down the same path as their mother

brb masturbating to verso

dlc will be about him, his suffering and how much of an actually good person he is

better buy it coomers or clea gets jackshit

Love you Guillaume

delight in the suffering of people who inflcit suffering

Yes.

alicia grows as a person and painter

by the time she talks to her in the endless tower she just tells her to fuck off and do her own thing because we're already winning the battle against Aline

Clea is such a cunt lmao

Well, that much at least may be my interpretation since she looks older to me there. Still, the game does make it clear that there's extreme time dilation in the Canvas.

If that was a significant part of the setting, then maybe they should. Since they don't, I have to assume it isn't really important and painted people can fuck right back into the bucket of ink.

Devs straight up said new painted copies arent the same people.

Definitely. I was just shitposting but if you wanna get real, it's left up to you whether or not Alicia can bring back the lumierens as they were. If you feel she can, then by all means, let Alicia sacrifice herself so they can live on for as long as they need to find closure and make peace with the nature of their existence.

they need to find closure and make peace with the nature of their existence.

You think they will be allowed to know? That would get in the way of her insane fantasy and that's a big no no.

In our world, there is the real world where we all eat, sleep, fuck, etc. in that real world, we create stories in books, movies, video games, etc. the characters we create in those media are not sentient, that's why there are no reprecussions to killing or torturing them.

That's certainly one interpretation, anon.

In our world magical painting powers don't exist.

Lune and Sciel already know. Lune, for all her analytical, overthinking persona, doesn't seem to care much, which is a massive break in characterization desu

Lune and Sciel already know.

Nothing Alicia can't fix with a wave of her hand.

OP BTFO

devs dont even know their own story every time they say something it messes with perception even more

Why didnt they put it in the game then? I shouldnt have to read twitter to know the stakes of the story

Even if it did, deleting vydia because the NPCs are sentient wouldn't be genocide.

it's not about verisimilitude, it's about emotion

t.a better painter

agreed nore if you delete earth, which is also just an arrangement of information

kind of devalues them as real sentient people when you can just do that to them

renoir, verso and maelle are all evil
they need to fuck off out of the canvas and leave it alone

Renoir and verso agree with you anon.
The issue is that Alicia (and Aline) don't.

Then that contradicts the story in-game that was written. Provide evidence, Supreet, or fuck off.

Verso's soul says that the denizens of the painting have souls.

Simple, she made it up.

Even if you want to reach this hard, Sciel also makes references to her previous (Act 1/2) relationship dialogues in her 6th/7th (Act 3) dialogues, which we know are not made up and Maelle has no knowledge of.

Yes, a kid thinks his toys have souls.
Same as his plushie being the strongestest being ever.

If someone created a virtual environment with actual sentient and sapient beings, yes destroying it and them would be genocide.

Verso didn't paint the Lumierens, Aline did. I won't argue about souls, because what even is a soul in this setting? But what about the Lumierens suggests to you that their sapience is any less sophisticated than that oh humans in the real world?

If Sciel never mentioned it before, how do we know if that backstory is consistent with the original Sciel? That "memory" could have manifested as Maelle repainted her.

Renoir and Verso don't agree; they want to destroy the Canvas for their own selfish reasons.

No it wouldn't. These things aren't humans.

actual sentient and sapient

Are they though? or are they just emulations derived from the soul splinter used in the creation of the canvas and based on the expression of whoever painted them into existence?

Verso only wanted Aline to go.
Renoir accepted the whole

let's hide it from Aline and you can visit it from time to time

part
Alicia forced their hand, hard.

Human=/=Sapient, at least not in this context. We're talking about the ability to feel emotion and reason.

Why the fuck would Maelle repaint her friend add a fake miscarriage memory?

how do we know if that backstory is consistent with the original Sciel?

Because there are major hints throughout the game... Her story didn't come out of nowhere.

Verso wants the piece of real Verso's soul to be allowed to die, which will destroy the Canvas.

Renoir though did at least concede in the end, even if he believes it won't work, but did so because he gave in to his daughter, not because he cared about the world she inhabited.

Why the fuck would Maelle be so vile as to put that fake memory in her? Wtf? Ee know Esquie did save her from drowning, idiot.

It's a fictional story with magic yes but it also has real world themes of grief and emotions, and so if the characters in this fictional world think like us then it is understandable that players are going to use their logic of how the real world works and apply the concept of created characters in media to the ones of the painting. Therefore when presented with the idea that the painted people are in fact real and we just have to except it "because magic bro its a story" people are going to notice the flaws when they try to reason with what is going on with the characters by relating it to how human psychology works and also having to just pretend everything in the painting is real against their gut feeling for the sake of the game wanting to have ambiguous endings

I don't care about a being's capacity to feel emotion or reason though?

Because

verisimilitude

Renoir isn't evil. He just tried to save his family.

We literally know Esquie saved her.

Also, Renoir would EVENTUALLY destroy the Canvas, once Maelle/Aline died or left.

But magic existing would fundamentally alter our understanding of the logic of the world. It's central to the plot that painters can actually create thinking, feeling, sapient intelligences.

Everything in act 1 and 2 shows they are.

Also if they aren't real people and can just be remade in another canvas and there's no actual issue with destroying them, that would have been a really good point for Renoir to make (which he never does).

gustave also knew about her whole deal dunno why maelle wouldn't

And that they are free to just store them away or burn them if they want.

By going the absolute worst way about it. Decided to genocide millions or maybe billions, including people who his daughter grew up with as family, to resolve something he could fix by giving his wife meds.

You're free to do whatever you want to real people in our real world, too. That's separate of the question of the morality of those actions.

I think his logic is that Esquie saving Sciel would also be an invention of Maelle's. I disagree, but basically by their logic, every private conversation, thought or emotion is a scripted dialog or scenario that Maelle or real!Verso came up with in advance.

Maelle wrote in a miscarriage when she remade Sciel, for reasons, and gave Esquie a false memory of rescuing her. For reasons.

Verso's soul kind of threw me off. At first I thought a painter just panted something and then it functioned on it's own. But no actually Verso's soul needs to be continually painting to keep them going (like an animator?). Does this imply there are fragments of mini-Alines, Renoirs and Cleas toiling away in their other paintings for eternity? And how come Clea's creations continue to function in Verso's painting after she left? Would that mean Verso's soul is maintaining them too even while they are ruining his own creations?

Sciel makes references to her Act 1/2 relationship dialogues in her act 3 dialogues, which we know are real, and which Maelle does not know about.

to resolve something he could fix by giving his wife meds.

Aline won't come out and the meds at that time include real heroine.

1900s city already in ruins and being drained year after year after year

millions

kek, you can't just leave it at "killing a bunch of people to save your family is bad," you have to grossly exaggerate the numbers, too.

Imagine being this retarded.

An artist pouring his soul into his work is a cliche for a reason.

Verso doesn't know about them sure but why wouldn't Maelle, they've known each other since before the expedition. Is it said somewhere?

I think his logic is that Esquie saving Sciel would also be an invention of Maelle's.

That doesn't even work, Maelle didn't repaint Esquie. In fact, Esquie calls her "my bad swimmer friend" back in Act I.

Nobody still didn't explain to me if Maelle being a writter has any significance for the plot

her interest in writing is what gave the writers an in for Fire Family Fun Time

can just be remade in another canvas

If a real person that died can have a copy made in the canvas (Verso), why couldn't you make a copy of painted people from this canvas into another?
They wouldn't be the "same" person, but they would behave and think as if they were, just like pVerso initially did. He behaved just like Verso and didn't even know he was a painted person until Clea told him. The knowledge he was painted and his unique experiences within the canvas made him into his own person, but before that, he was nothing but a copy of Verso.

Dunno if she was a fully fledged writer but her interest in the art allowed the Writers to take advantage of her trust and firebomb the dessendre house, killing verso and kicking off the entire plot of the game

How would the game end if Gustave lived?
And why didn't Maelle revive him too?

I think one of the notes implied that she was despised by both writters and painters.

I agree, but I don't see how else what they're talking about could make sense.

Aline won't come out

Aline was kicked out by Maelle and Expedition 33. Renoir still decided to genocide because he's an unreasonable asshole. He was literally there the whole time with E33 and knew how his daughter saw them all. Didn't care one bit.

1900s city already in ruins and being drained year after year after year

millions

Yup, Pre Fracture they were definitely millions. Renoir caused the Fracture.

Yes but it's certainly not a cliche for an artist to maintain the work of someone actively fucking up their own art. One would expect Verso's soul not to be fueling the continued existence of Clea's creations.

Not much, Maelle would be more wishy washy I guess?
Then Alicia takes over and that's it for his relevancy.

Seriously, what can writters realistically do if painters can use secret technique?

Being literate doesn't mean you are a Writer. Being able to paint doesn't mean you are a Painter. There's the regular thing and the magical one. Alicia liked the regular thing.

Show me the census bro :)

Dunno, ask Atrus.

idk maybe count the Corpses around the Dualist area or something. Then add double or triple that amount considering others died by Gommage.

Surely you've already done that since you said they were DEFINITELY in the millions. Show your work :)

why couldn't you make a copy of painted people from this canvas into another?

Not that anon but mostly because the canvas the game takes place in contain a part of Verso's soul and the people there wouldn't really be the same. And that has to be true because otherwise erasing the painting wouldn't solve any problem because otherwise Aline could just create new canvas to get trapped in at any given moment.

What reason is given to the player to give a single shit about the Dessendres? Seriously, the game expects you to care about this posh baguette family but does nothing to make any of them at all relatable.

This is factually proven wrong when Sciel tells the story of her miscarriage that she has told nobody before. How could Maelle have known about it?

unfortunately this doesnt prove anything wrong because maelle could have just planted that story there and it would play out the same from a in game continuum viewpoint. There is also nothing that suggests that maelle would not have known given that lumiere is not a particularly large community given the gommages and all and they all grew up there, someone having been married and lost their husband etc would have been something easily apparent to everyone in town.

outside of the video game continuum, the devs probably didnt care to think that far about it and needed some amount of flexibility about how they tell the side quests since not everyone engages with side content in the same manner.

the dessendre in your party

There are 400000 total corpses there I made ChatGPT count the bodies.

death note

Maelle/Alicia
Verso
Renoir doing NOTHING WRONG

cannot relate to a family that will sacrifice to protect each other

yikes, your folks let you down

They can counter by adding the adjectives "retarded" and "gay" to every painter they catch.

does nothing to make any of them at all relatable.

All you have to tell me is that Aline is a mother in grief over her dead son and she's relatable. I can imagine and project on her how my mother would feel if she lost me.

That's why Maelle gives up her life to save Gustave and co.

I just did the same and there are only 40 bodies!

becomes alicia at the end of act II

verso says "yeah i let gustave die"

alicia's says "thanks for telling me :)"

unbreakable bond

lmao maelle is dead after act ii

Renoir genocided 6 million Lumerians. Cope.

Tell me you're a detached sociopath without telling me you're a detached sociopath.
Or you simply have never experienced loss. Or both, really.

Their dilemma is entirely self-inflicted, though. I do not have sympathy for literal gods when they commit a blunder with their powers.

downplaying the 6 billion that died the gommacaust

Very antichromatic of you anon

l and the people there wouldn't really be the same.

I adressed that. It doesn't really matter if they aren't really the same though, pVerso is not really Verso but he functions as Verso to both Aline and Alicia as long as they're deluded enough.

And that has to be true because otherwise erasing the painting wouldn't solve any problem because otherwise Aline could just create new canvas to get trapped in at any given moment.

Aline can probably paint people into any new canvas, the story emphatizes Verso's canvas as special because it represents the thing Verso left for his family. But Lumiere is not a thing he left his family, Alicia could paint Lumiere in another canvas.

Who cares just as much if not more about the PEOPLE on Lumiere. Checkmate.

doesn't care too much now that she has god powers and can bring him back by the end of the ordeal

DB characters laugh at death as well. When you can just pop back up it becomes a joke.

save

He was already dead, ressurrecting someone to play a role in your fiction is not saving someone

she cares about her painted friends, not Lumiere
she wanted out of that fucking place as Maelle

NOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST REVIVE PEOPLE

Even Jesus did it.

People actually sided with the evil gods that wanted to destroy the world.

Fuck Renoir
Fuck Clea
And extra fuck painted Verso for betraying his own people.
I don't care what your problems are but genocide isn't it.

The extraordinary claims about Jesus resurrecting others and ultimately himself are only signficant on the presumption that such feats are impossible in this reality.

I'm here to help you because I care

now it's a day that ends in 'y', you know what that means, get to the opera house!

Your homes? The streets, restaurants, town squares? ...uh, I'll get to them. Just one more song.

if murdering lumerians is justified because they're not conscious then versofags should have no problem with me murdering them given that they're brainless NPCs

Reviving party members in battle are now different people because Anon Babble has the IQ of a 6th grader on a shortbus

You forgot the clothes part.

aliciafags remain motivated solely by spite

kek

Most npcs irl are only concerned with food, their jungle beats and what they will consoom at store or on pedo-flix. Prove me wrong

You're not.

Yeah well Alicia is pretty much Paint Jesus in the Canvas. The others can't resurrect Lumerians.

Oh no, we used our godlike powers to create artificial life in pocket dimensions of our own making, and now some of us want to stay in those pocket dimensions instead of facing the music with the rest of us in the REAL world where we have a war to die in! Woe is us! Please pity us!

They are 100% faithfully the characters we played with. But one thing bugs me. There could be a 100% accurate clone of me that has every memory I had, even the memory of dying or in this case gommaging... but it would not be me, would it? It's not me, as in, the consciousness writing this now. It's a copy that continues where the original ended.
In that case the originals are actually gone and nothing speaks against remaking Lumière in a different Canvas. idk. She'd need Aline's help though

They did good job in making me care about Clea and how she's right about everything

Holy intp

The only thing clea is right about is simps will follow anyone around if they don't wear shoes and are bitchy girlbosses

Aline can probably paint people into any new canvas, the story emphatizes Verso's canvas as special because it represents the thing Verso left for his family. But Lumiere is not a thing he left his family, Alicia could paint Lumiere in another canvas.

If you can just repaint people on other canvas it makes the entire main conflict compeletely pointless.
Erasing the canvas solves nothing as Aline can just paint herself a new fake family and Alicia can just repaint her own fake friends whenever she likes.
And why wouldn't anybody raise this point in their heated discussions about the future of the canvas. Verso doesn't try to get Alicia to let go by understanding that she can just repaint everyone, Alicia doesn't point out that Aline can just paint a new trap for herself. The entire main plot hinges on canvas being unique and irreplacable because Verso's soul is in it.

Yep. A destructive copy destroys the original person and the copy is not the same individual.
That's why consciousness uploads are going to be a scam for imbeciles.

Game mechanics are the story of the game

Retardbro...

If Maelle could paint a perfect clone of Hitler, do you think she would torture him?

Because they don't care about other people, they care exclusively about verso and that verso has meaning because his real soul is there so you can pretend.

Any painter can.

the first blender animation is Lune, not Maelle

Fuck

She did and does.

Use your brain for a fucking second faggots and answer me this: How are the Dessendres different from your typical evil gods that want to destroy the world in JRPGs? Just because they have family crisis?

Most, but not all, people would press a button that would kill a lot of other people if it saved their own family from dying. That's what these people are to Renoir, random others whom he values less than his wife.

Like most w*men, she lied for sympathy points

Not my fault I agree with Renoir and the ending happens because Alicia is retarded.

What the fuck is this place anyways?

The real canvas, where verso paints and where the painters access to enter the fake world.

The entire main plot hinges on canvas being unique and irreplacable because Verso's soul is in it.

It's irreplaceable in the sense that it has Verso's soul, it reminds the family of Verso, it makes it easier to lose themselves in the delusion that Verso never died.
Objectively, outside of that, there is nothing particular to this canvas.

And why wouldn't anybody raise this point in their heated discussions about the future of the canvas. Verso doesn't try to get Alicia to let go by understanding that she can just repaint everyone, Alicia doesn't point out that Aline can just paint a new trap for herself.

They don't. The game story moves along and by the Verso ending, it assumes that being kicked off from this canvas and destroying it is enough to snap Alicia and Aline out of the desire to keep painting illusions to deal with their grief.

god created you to live among you

this is killing god so god's husband wants to pull her out

because god and god's daughter refuse to not live with you, even though it's killing them, god's husband is left with your destruction as the only way to save his wife and daughter

SOunds more like the Dessendre women are evil.

That's definitely how clones work but in this case I'm not sure. Alicia succed their croma and brought them back to shape. This might be logically closer to a reanimation than cloning

How are the Dessendres different from your typical evil gods that want to destroy the world in JRPGs?

The other JRPGs don't have two layers of reality, one of which is less real than the other.

objectively, outside of what makes it uniquely dangerous to Alicia and Aline, there's nothing particular to this canvas

What's the purpose of such a statement?

She can play pretend with another fake Verso if she can make a perfect copy. There's a reason why the last piece of his soul is still painting at the end. Because without it the place would be different.

destroying it is enough to snap Alicia and Aline out of

Particularly because boyVerso and pVerso chose to destroy the painting. Not Clea, not Renoir, Verso. They have to respect that. There is nothing left anyway. But it cuts off the blame game that would occur otherwise.

I just realized something through this thread that sort of confirms an idea or thought ive had about the game for a while that would heavily explain the shallow character writing, dialogue, and narrative progression in general of the game right before the end of Act 2. But i dont like to dwell on that realization. Its giving the game too much credit and benefit of the doubt. Because if the game was actually doing what I wanted to believe it was doing. Then it would catapult the value of the story, but I just dont believe it.

Once Aline and Alicia lose themselves in the canvas, the things that remind them of Verso aren't even relevant. The gestrals, the grandis, all the adventures Verso put in the canvas are legends and myths to the people of Lumiere. Lumiere, the place Aline dwelt on with her fake family.
She wasn't even experiencing the things Verso left for her anymore, she was just experiencing Verso (her creation), the family (her creation) and Lumiere (her creation). Realistically, all of these could be in another canvas.

why don't you just say what it is instead of being mysterious about it, faggot?

It's irreplaceable in the sense that it has Verso's soul, it reminds the family of Verso, it makes it easier to lose themselves in the delusion that Verso never died.

If you can just repaint it elsewhere without the soul you can make a copy that is just as easy to get lost in. Once they're inside it doesn't matter if the soul is in there since the plays still works like their favorite drug.

They don't. The game story moves along and by the Verso ending, it assumes that being kicked off from this canvas and destroying it is enough to snap Alicia and Aline out of the desire to keep painting illusions to deal with their grief.

Destroying it is enough to snap them out of it because it permanently removes the option of spending more time with pretend Verso in his funny little world. If they didn't need to remove the temptation permanently then the game would have a happy ending at the end of Act II.

You're gonna summon the guy who says verso's soul was gaslit

It's Verso's soul that got her into that delusional state of succor in the first place.

I can't prove that the lumerians aren't alive therefore it's okay to kill them

I can't prove you're alive so is it okay if I kill you?

Verso's painting was ruined when Ailine dropped Lumiere into it anyway. Then it got devastated when Renoir dropped in and threw a fit. Further was it poisoned with the Nevrons. The real victims were the Gestrals and Verso. Ending the whole thing was the better choice.
And not even Alicia gives a shit about restoring the canvas to its original state. No, she wants to keep Lumiere (in ruins) and play happy family based on her Maelle life.

Expedition 33 is unironically a game that requires a shockingly high IQ to fully understand thematically like a lot of the greatest literature. Most of the criticism is because it was advertised towards JRPG fans and they are irredeemably stupid people.

Because im not in the mood to argue over it with subhuman retards on here. I already attempted a huge indepth thread that challenged peoples preconceptions on the games writing and it was nearly a waste of time with 90% of the replies asking for a TLDR and then the other half reading what i said, and only focusing on what would allow them to "win" while blatantly ignoring something that was already acknowledged while pointing out that very "fact" as if I didnt just acknowledge it.
Anon Babble is a subhuman retard place that just seeks to confirm its biases. Not even critical thinking, but just basic reading comprehension isnt possessed.
If im going to waste my time. Its going to be when I have a natural impulsive surge of desire to express a coherent thought. And while my "realization" is valid. Its not yet coherent aka only I would understand it anyway

If he's an npc then yes. Death to all npcs

Maellefags* not Alicia

can you link the thread I'm dying to know

H-heh, you'll regret saying that! In t-two weeks they're going to announce a g-g-golden ending! The ORIGINAL protagonist is gonna kill god and give a happy ending to the burned girl I wanna fuck!

Another faux-intellectual who pretends to be oh-so-smart with oh-so-many words while saying nothing of substance ever. Pathetic.

There wasn't a Maelle ending, though. She died at the end of act II

L-Look at me, I'm above it all

DOUBLE NIGGER

brother im on my knees begging as someone who hates the way Anon Babble talks about this game as the greatest thing ever please

posted some dumb headcanon theory

got btfo

brings it up in other threads to tell Anon Babble they can't handle it

kek. Are you the one always saying everyone in Lumiere is based off of someone Aline knew in the real world?

.

man, the music when verso read painted alicia's letter...
youtube.com/watch?v=giIadzgpYM4

If I'm rebuilt from the same genetic material I'm the same imo. The time I spent "dead" was just one big sleep for my conciousness. Like when you turn on and off a machine. It's still the same machine.

Oh, god, die in a fire, please!
retard

I actually remember this thread, what about it would catapult the games story?

I know. Versofags and Maellefags are names taken from the last "fight as ...". Aliciafags don't care about Verso at all. We care only for long-term well-being of the cutest and most beautiful Alicias.

here's my grand theory about the game that I haven't finished:

if you're sad but someone convinces you to keep trying, it's poorly written

kek it's worse than I imagined. On the off chance that this is simply 11/10 bait, well done.

A respectable, even noble, position. Carry on, Maellefag. I kneel.

False. Headcanon retardation. Typical fagchan shit.

the writer's intentions about their work are wholly irrelevant in assessing their work
if the writer wrote "the sky in this world is blue" in a book and then they said afterward that what they meant is "the sky in this world is green" then that statement in no way invalidates the fact that they wrote "the sky in this world is blue"

cope

Holy redditspacing. Unreadable.

Goodbye! Farewell, Alici-AAAAAAAAACKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

what did they mean by this

what is symbolism

Lost on the subhuman non-White mutt.

some of the characters are acting on their grief

therefore the sole message of this game is: griefgriefgriefgriefgrief

You're impossibly stupid, even among faggots, you stupid faggot.

Did you not read what I said? I should have just said Act 2 I guess but Sciel refers to her Act 2 conversations with Verso in her act 3 conversations with Verso. Maelle does not know about these.

I love the game but I could honestly give two shits what his intentions were, like I genuinely really like this game and will replay it for years but the main dev seems like he knows just what to say using words like "soul" and wanting so bad for people to feel like they are buds with the public

when JK Rowling says that Dumbledore in the books is gay, despite it never being mentioned or hinted at or suggested in her books, does that mean Dumbledore is gay in her books? obviously not
I don't even like what the pretentious grief OP wrote, you're just braindead for citing the author's "intentions" when assessing a piece of work

Literally all the devs have said is "it's up to you, the player, to interpret." Endingniggers take this as a direct assault on their belief that only their interpretation of their preferred ending can be accepted and shout "death of the author!"

he's gay in later stories not just in tweets

it's up to you, the player, to interpret.

and what if someone interprets that it's about grief which is an entirely fair assessment? do you even listen to yourself?

Then why are you trying to argue from a humanist perspective when you yourself are a bugman?

director

Oh. So not the writers. Whatever then.

an author saying one of her characters is gay years after the fact because it's trendy is the same as an author commenting "the details are for you to interpret, make of this art what you will" shortly after its release

I'm sorry anon, your ending isn't the "right" one because there isn't a "right" one.

Thank you. Not Maellefag tho.

he cant analyze a piece of work and needs the writer to spoon feed him the game so he can feel smart above everyone else.

if 99% of discussion is about grief in the narrative but the writer actually says it wasn't the point then everyone else is wrong and the writer didn't at all fail at conveying their point

dumbass

Then that is what the story is to that person, not what it is definitively. You're free to feel that way anon, other's don't have to. But to say "the story IS this" is very different than "the story is this, to me,"

He was the director as well as the main writer alongside the chink chick.

zero ability to follow even the most basic logical steps even when I lay them out, instead focuses on my analogy and not the underlying argument
another mindless, soulless bug scratching at the surface of his mind- sad!

he cant analyze a piece of work and needs the writer to spoon feed him the game

Literally all I am saying is that the game is up to you to analyze and that it does not spoonfeed you. Take off your seething blinders for just a moment.

one more brush stroke there... hmmmm... a scar here... trimmed bush... implanted traumatic abortion memory... et voilà!

What did the person say to this?
Aka, what prompted this reaction and how did he, the director, justify afterwards his statement.

You needed an analogy because you cannot adequately argue about the subject at hands. You were like a 10th of a step removed from making a food analogy. Imagine being at computers.

Then why are you trying to argue from a humanist perspective when you yourself are a bugman?

Not all sentiend and emotional life is human. I don't care about sentiency, I only care about full-fledged, born from real women, humans. I'm a mankind first anon, and L*mierians did not come from another human in a natural process, but were painted into life by Aline, who then replicate themselves pretending they are flesh and bone like us.
Humans exchange fluids, these "people" exchange paint.

when people make statements about artistic interpretations which are inherently subjective, they are giving their opinion, regardless of how they phrase it

Do any of you guys actually like that the endings are purposefully made ambiguous? I like the game but it all feels kind of shallow what with having the player interpret everything. In the back of my head it all feels like its for the simple purpose of generating discussion to make their game look like its for smart people

Well yeah it's obviously just to bait discussion and basically a complete step away from the game's writing. But one can easily tell that by how act 3 feels basically like a nothing burger.

The endings aren't as ambiguous as you may think, they all both simply come with up/downsides and you can choose which one makes you happy, even if the intent is crystal clear.

Clea clit licking is a brainlet sign. If she got her way, Aline would die inside Canvas and the family would be forever destroyed. She is running away from grief, just in her own way. Her quest to avenge dead Verso is more important for her than alive family members. Putting her above Renoire is beyond retarded.

unironic HMYfag

Fucking ew, man, get some taste.
Also, get ready to defend the brownest Indian, African and Chinese because that's baseline humanity. Whites are a mutant aberration

neither of the endings matter because they're not about what actually mattered in this story- they're both shit

they're not about what actually mattered in this story

That was act 2, you have exactly what you want at the end of act 2.

god what an absolute cunt verso is kek

neither of the endings matter because they're not about what actually mattered in this story- they're both shit

They are both about Alicia, the focal point of the story though?

Verso gets nigger raped for this moment alone. I don't care.

Having the players have to interpret everything is far better than having the game intentionally longer by having every plot point in the game exposit-ed at you at every minute like normal JRPGs. Some things don't need to have such a clear cut explanation given immediately or at all, and I'd rather be left to float theories in my head than having everything spelled out for the retards in the back that haven't read a book in their life.

the focal point of the story

yeah for the last 5 minutes, do not care, waste of time

tells him to do whatever the fuck he wants with his letter

does just that

seethes

real Alicia was exactly like her mother anyway

Indian, african and chinese are also fake imitations, just like painted people.

God you are autistic.

director clarifies the story was not written to just be a story about grief

anons say he's wrong about the story he wrote

"C'mon they're just stating opinions"

Pay attention to the conversation you're jumping in on. They're not saying "but it was about grief to me tho" they're saying the writer is wrong and a retard.

yeah for the last 5 minutes,

beginning of the expedition is retrieving maelle

gustave basically admits he'd sacrifice lumiere for her

dies for her sake

act 2 has a lot of Alicia's weird relationship with the painted family

verso in general

act 3 is alicia through and through

Are you retarded?
Why do you think she was spying on him from the cliff in Act 1?

People are just too used to being told what to think by media. Art left up to your interpretation is a breath of fresh air.

whether you give it to her is up to you

doesn't give her

I hope you aren't like your father and mother after your experiences in the canvas

is exactly like her mother
Painted alicia lost, hard.

No it makes it sound like the devs dont give a rats ass about their own product and would rather hide any criticism behind "That's the point, you interpreted it differently than someone else, the point is to be conflicted!"

Autistic, to the core.

the director is entitled to his opinion about his own story, but he is not entitled to provide a definitive interpretation, that's not how it works
the writer is wrong and is a retard (in my opinion) if he says that grief is not central to the story when it blatantly is

the argument isn't against exposition vs storytelling through subtext, that's just a writing technique

maelle is a different character to alicia, maelle died at the end of act 2 and was instead inhabited by a girl that I don't care about
if you want me invested in the gay family drama of this family then you should've told the story better, I'm not a woman so I'm not into little kitchen plays about mommy and daddy

seething because his preferred ending isn't right

Some stories are just that, anon. A series of events for you to explore your feelings about. I understand that they made you angry somehow, you should consider why, rather than just directing it back out at the world.
No one's saying grief isn't central to the plot, it's simply not the sole, defining element of the plot, you fucking aspie.

the letter you hoped will save our family and the world?

the one that could prevent your father's death?

heh, here it is, I wiped my ass with it :^)

What the FUCK did Verso mean by that?

Just mentally preparing her for the "NOOOO YOU CAN'T SUICIDE YOU HAVE TO BE HERE FOR ME TO KILL YOU" speech.
Alas, she got a head start.

Brother, I tire of the conflicts and deceptions that plague our family and theirs.

Me too, sis! Glad I'm stopping the painting.

My beef isn't with the endings, it's that the writers didn't have the balls to give us a real story instead of all this interpretive crap. Of course the story is interpretive, newsflash pops, every story in history is interpretive, but the best ones give us something to chew on in the end with a message that may or not be good/bad/morally grey, they dont just give two half assed endings to force everyone to fight amongst themselves for the sake of discussion

So I read through it. What did you just realize that would change things? Please share

it's that the writers didn't have the balls to give us a real story

Yes they did. It's all they gave you. You're not used to being given a story without being told what you're supposed to make of it.

What the FUCK did Verso mean by that?

I love my sister so much :)

that tight hebe redhead piece of ass of course, not the one that was born to suffer yet wanted everyone happy

Reality is better than delusion, end of. Renoir was right, Alicia and Aline had to get a reality check, they couldn't continue their whole life wasting precious family time keeping their shitty donut steel webcomic up and running.

I disagree and Renoir was equally delusional. Cope.

shitty donut steel webcomic

Why is this still the core of every dismissive argument I hear?
It's the cracked foundation you've built your whole understanding on top of.

Man your father did a shit job

crack is the whole foundation your mother based her life on

And still better than yours. Imagine that.

no u

you act like the lack of exposition is what gives the narrative value but you have no clue how to actually analyze a story beyond its writing techniques. The director himself said the game is meant to be up to interpretation, and that causes flaws in the narrative. But you cant see that. Because you don't know what you're talking about. I am speaking about the writers intentions and what the dual endings suggest about the overall message but because you can't think beyond it's writing techniques you cant even process what the argument is about

Loss can drain whatever you have left instead of moving on. I'd understand if the Dessendres lost all of their kids and Renoir and Aline can't continue their bloodline, but they can still be a strong family without Verso in the picture, no pun intended.

Concession acknowledged.

lack of exposition

kek

overall message

Noooo you have to tell me what to think, you can't just write an interesting story that makes me think about those concepts! I NEED YOUR OPINION WRITER!

You're talking pseudi-intellectual bullshit to appear smart on a romanian grass weaving forum.

Concede on your life, faggot.

No. I already got yours.

it's not ambiguous, living your life in VR is bad, living life is good. the people who think the VR characters are sentient never watched a Deadpool movie

retard

x.com/clairobscur/status/1928278525863415854

DLC ANNOUNCED

THE CONTINUING ADVENTURES OF GUSTAVE AND FRIENDS

Maelle died too.
The character you play with in act 3 is Alicia painting over her face and throat, filled with Maelle's memories. In the previous acts you were playing as Maelle with shards of Alicia's memories.
This shit was literally foreshadowed at the start of act 3.
People need to learn how to read stories again.

Don't sign your empty posts, weirdo.

$9 wine

Should have been champagne just to be extra French.

Then tell me what is so pseudo intellectual about it

People really arguing that Maelle's remakes arent different people

If you ceased to be this very day. Your very atoms gone. Then someone rebuilt you perfectly
It still wouldnt be you

Nu trek shitting the bed has done serious harm to people understanding shit like that.
Back in the day we had shows that already touch on that subject.

Its because were arguing with retards who think they can upload their brain into a computer and live forever

That's your baseless opinion though.

I wouldnt miss her carriage, if you catch my drift.

Waste of words.

Reminder that the average internet user speaks to chatbots modeled after anime characters, and thinks they are living artificial beings.

Its challenging the story instead of just shoveling whatever the writer says into your mouth and taking it like a pushover

I would save ChatGPT over you in a heartbeat so I can't blame them.

It could not be any clearer that the author is allowing you to do what you want with the story, rather than "shoveling anything into your mouth." You must be an endingnigger seething that the devs didn't tell you you were right.

Only Alicia, Maelle and Painted Alicia are even close to sane on that list.
Everybody else are complete psychopaths.

Y'all retards that need to re-learn Verso's lesson about painting.
It's not about verisimilitude, it's about capturing their essence, the truth of who they are. You capture that essence and the details (like said aborted baby memories) will follow.
It's Field of Dreams "if you build it he will come" type shit where they build the baseball field before having the players for it.In the case of e33, the memories come from faithfully recreating the person rather than faithfully recreating the person because you used their memories.

I love how people take whatever the director and writers say at face value.
They are playing to their audience by saying they understand why people choose whatever ending. Despite the game making it extremely clear which is the GOOD and bad ending. But they need to drive engagement as much as possible because they didnt think this game would be as big a hit.

Weak baito

Point of the main factor how you Can tell which is good and Bad ending

I don't get why maelle's ending is supposed to be bad

everyone is back

gets to live happily ever after

verso gets to live and fuck lune

why the FUCK is he malding at the end? because he's not real? who fucking cares - if you feel, you're alive

Fuck off ESL retard

the canvas is going to be destroyed the moment maelle dies. Her ending accomplishes nothing

Everyone gets more time at the very most barebones outcome. That is plenty as it is.

While there have always been shitposters in these threads, over the past few days it feels like we've reached 90% of the ending posts being blatant falseflags.

It's more time, time to live; you won't live forever either, does that ruin the happiness you can enjoy right now? For all you know, this reality isn't really real either, that's exactly the boat everyone in the canvas is in other than verso and maelle, do they deserve to die for nothing?

get this game after waiting an entire month for the dust to settle and Anon Babble to start shitting on it as they always do

there's still multiple threads being made daily

it's still talking about the game itself and nothing else

decide to finally pick it up and play it

becomes one of the best vidya experiences of my life

How did they do it?

clear vision of what their game is supposed to be and no room for unneeded chaff because of budget and team size

There's a reason AA scale games are often so much better than AAA

small passionate team

every decision isn't bogged down by committee

people making it all love videogames

Sometimes a game is just good and we're lucky to play it.

Because it's a temporary pause on oblivion.
If Alicia left the canvas as is, Renoir would be shown that he can trust the women in her family to not kill themselves over escapism. We know from him relenting with Alicia that he isn't outside reasoning with. If Alicia had left the canvas too she could have made the case that Verso's painting doesn't need destroying and Renoir might actually go along with it, thus saving Lumiere, the Gestrals, Esquie, etc.
As it is she stayed in the canvas, squashing what hope her father had, so now Renoir destroying the canvas is 100% assured.

I do deranged shit to those chat bots cause I know they ain't real, where's my evil painter ending

It's the canvas' mudroom, I think Maelle ends up here when she first enters the canvas (when Aline paints over her) it has the same weird eclipse thing.

the canvas is going to be destroyed the moment maelle dies

Why?

Renoir has chosen to let Alicia do her thing as he has seen the error of pushing the matter with Aline and inadvertently causing this second issue as a result, anon.

I disagree with that anon slightly, Maelle won't die in there. Renoir will just yeet her out and torch the canvas when she starts getting really bad.

It's more time, time to live

It's actually less time though, because your actual physical body is deteriorating from you not taking breaks from the canvas.
True lifemaxing involves taking long runs in the canvas with proper breaks in the real world.

Because painted creations are contingent on the chroma available to the painter and Clea simply isn't more powerful than Maelle.
She couldn't even kill painted Verso and Renoir

Anon, the ending literally tells you Renoir was hoping, even as Alicia was lying to his face.

It's stated explicitly that the only reason he relented is because she said she'd come out after a little longer. This was a lie (that he wanted to believe). Verso calls Alicia out and she admits it. When she starts to fall apart line Aline did, Renoir WILL pull her out. This is one of the few things not up to interpretation.
This. If Alicia could show that she can break the grip of the canvas over her, then maybe Aline could, too, and there'd be no need to destroy it. It could become a family canvas that they watch over to protect the Lumierens. Instead, Alicia plans to stay there until the day she dies.

lune was only angry in verso's (the true) ending because it was a fake lune made to maelle's worldview

interesting

Anon, he is hoping she will make it through the other end in her own time. That is what he is hoping for. That giving her room to do her thing will work.

Clea isn't more powerful than Maelle

kek

she couldn't even kill painted verso and renoir

Her nevrons absolutely bodied painted verso. Aline just specifically made Renoir and Verso immortal. Clea even buffed up Simon to slay an axon, entities much more powerful than Verso.

Anon, he was hoping that she really will stay "just a little longer". Don't be fucking retarded.

Oh no, i wrote of instead out. Still waiting for the answer.

And when it doesn't, he'll pull her out. Because she's never leaving. Because despite him relenting to her, she's obsessed with the canvas and can't handle the possibility that he could destroy it when she leaves. Alicia admits she intends to die in that canvas. Renoir will not let her. Tick tock.

Would the real Renoir be proud of the painted version of his son who decided to erase the Canvas?

I beat the tower and level 90 now.
How EZ is act 3 gonna be now kek?

Aline coming back into the painting right after being kicked out should really tell you all you need to know about useless Alicia's plan was, and why destroying the painting was the only way.

No, he doesn't see them as humans.

Maelle was perfect, Alicia is shit

Yes. He was already immensely grateful to painted Verso for his part in booting Aline out the first time. Somehow knowing that painted Verso also had a hand in stopping even more of the escapism into the canvas would just double that gratitude.

Do you even comprehend how fucked up is interacting with simulacrum of your dead child?

gud gaem

Aline showing up like she did was bullshit considering that everyone in the game gushes at how fucking amazing Clea is and said amazing person thought Alicia found a very clever hiding spot for the painting.
It should have taken much longer for her to show up but I guess Sandfall ran out of money to express a decent passage of time.

You missed the part where the sister Verso loves is commiting suicide by being obssessed to this canvas.

renoir doesn't want aline going back in again, that's why maelle told verso she couldn't just leave temporarily

"i want to die, therefore everyone Has to die"

This is the "good" ending. Bravo.

everyone has to die

Proof this is happening?

Moi Lolita...

... kino

Verso isn't a real person.
The copy of your dearest brother (the original having died to protect you) loves you so much he sacrifices his copy of a life in order to save you. Everyone else is just other copies and thus also don't matter.
The original people (Alicia, Aline) are saved at the expense of a bunch of copies and frauds.

They ceased to think therefore they died. "I think therefore i am".

Because Maelle retards need to pretend they aren't fake people matter or else they're retarded suicide apologists

don't care about Verso

The real Verso sacrificed himself for others. As does his P Version. It's what the real Verso would have wanted. Not for his soul to be tormented, forever painting a prison for his family.

"Everyone else is just other copies and thus also don't matter. "

This is the problem with the ending, they don't know they're not real, they don't know their world isn't real - they can live full, happy lives and Verso would deprive them of that

As does his P Version

It's not a sacrifice when you want to die.

Who's "they"? Everyone in Lumiere is dead save for Lune. The rest of the expedition killed themselves by following Verso into the no no zone.
Some omnipotent demiurge killing and bringing people back on a whim cheapens the value of said people's lives.

Clarification: These aren't Maellefags, these are Aliciafags.

If It was solely Maelle who was fighting for the Canvas, I would've sided with her. BUT IT IS NOT THE CASE.

Can someone tell me why would the canvas be destroy when Alicia died?
The canvas is powered by Verso soul not Alicia so even if she's gone the canvas would still exist.
You have to actively try for it to be destroy, like in verso ending.
And if she's already dead then the dessendre wouldn't have any reason anymore to do it

It's a sacrifice when you're damning a world someone else created, that you're the living ghost of, and you've seen the senseless pain it's caused. PVerso loved his friends deeply. Otherwise the game wouldn't even have the relationship mechanic that directly tied to him as a character. PVerso gave up more than anyone. More than even the real Verso.

You're retarded and the game spells it out clear as day for you.

why would the canvas be destroy when Alicia died?

Renoir will erase it.
The mother is too weak to defend it anymore and Clae is helping Renoir.

Can someone tell me why would the canvas be destroy when Alicia died?

Because Renoir would destroy it to prevent Aline from jumping back in and making Lumiere and painted family 2.0, sending us back to square one.
You're a retard for not understanding something the game keeps bringing up. Renoir says it multiple times in the game that he'll destroy the canvas once everyone's been kicked out, even if he doesn't really want to on account of it being Verso's only painting.

He wants to die because his life, and this canvas, are a prison to Aline and Alicia. It's not just a happy coincidence. He does not want "this" life, a life that serves the purpose of engulfing his family into a false world that will cause their deaths.
pVerso is not even truly immortal. Applying the trope of immortal person who now longs for death doesn't really work on him, because he knows what is truly happening in his world (the conflict between Aline and Renoir, and how Renoir is slowly winning with the gommages). Renoir will win the conflict. Verso is not an immortal man, but a fated man, because 33 years from now, Renoir acquired all gommage from the painting, kicks Aline out and the canvas goes bye bye and he dies anyway. So why does he not want to wait?
It's simple. It's because he knows there's the possibility Aline and Alicia die for waiting that long. Verso had an immediate interest on Alicia the second Clea told him she was around. He wants to kick her off and destroy the canvas as soon as possible, to keep the deranged women from his (real) family safe.

purposefully made ambiguous?

The endings are not ambigous, they're bittersweet. Everyone wants the golden ending but that was not meant to be.
For verso you're finally pulling the plug and admitting that it's just a painting with fake people. Saving Alicia and overcoming the grief takes priority. The family will be fine but the fantasy is gone.
For alicia you're staying in fantasy land with revived gustave and friends. She willl die in the paiting and then everyone else will die but for now everything is fine, except verso. I just doubt the rest of lumiere was revived as faithfully as gustave since alicia is bad at painting but this is never properly addressed. Since time goes pretty fast in the painting they probably have an entire lifetime before alicia dies and everything gets erased for real this time. Also the real family is probably falling apart outside.

Just like Noco

Nope, the devs literally said the opposite in a recent interview.

you've literally got it backwards. aline's power through controlling the majority of chroma is directly stopping renoir from erasing everything. alicia's letter confirms this, and there's dialogue in game that explains the gommage and the countdown. as aline keeps spending time in the painting without any breaks her health deteriorates and her control over the chroma weakens to the point where she can only keep the "fresher" creations from renoir's destruction. her changing the number is basically just a warning to everything for how long she can hold out.
renoir couldn't convince her to leave the painting of her own free will so he went for a war of attrition by forcing her out once she got too weak to protect anything.

Does he care about Esquie?

defend it

You mean vandalise it.
The painting was originally made by Verso and Clea. After Verso's death she took a huge Lumiere shaped shit on it and brought in an invasive species.

are they sentient!?

these beings cannot evolve past what their creator assigns them

A good amount of JRPGs has this inbuilt alongside "taking down God".

Maelle overriding Alicia would've hit the nail if they actually wanted to save Lumiere

Also...do people not understand how easy it is for the Writers to kill Alicia outside of the Canvas?

yes, I meant to defend it from Renoir erasing it.

Renoir is destroying it precisely because Aline was squatting in it.
Had she only practiced what she preached when she rescued Renoir from his paint addiction, there wouldn't be a need to destroy the canvas.

"Yeah, don't worry Sciel, i will help you find your husband"

minutes later

"Actually scratch that, he stays dead and you need to die too"

Yes. If you return after this scene he has more to say, specifically And tell Esquie I said- tell him to come back soon.

So did lumiere and humans in the painting existed for like 2 irl weeks or so?
Is it to be believed that Aline created Verso and the rest of the fake family first and then hundreds of other random humans that didn't realize they started existing from thin air?

Well, reuniting them in the afterlife is apt.

Is it to be believed that Aline created Verso and the rest of the fake family first and then hundreds of other random humans that didn't realize they started existing from thin air?

It is not to be believed, it is what happened.

So did lumiere and humans in the painting existed for like 2 irl weeks or so?

Yes

Is it to be believed that Aline created Verso and the rest of the fake family first and then hundreds of other random humans that didn't realize they started existing from thin air?

There's nothing suggesting this. Lumiere is a recreation of Paris that Aline made for her grief escapism. It's entirely possible that she made the city, its people, and her painted family at the same time.

C-cute!

Verso and Marche: Making escapismfags piss and cry since 2003

yes, that's true. But she wasn't hurting the canvas, she was hurting herself. You could argue for the people in the canvas that they had a good life before Renoir came and fucked shit up for everyone.
That's the moral question of the game. Is Renoir right do destroy a fake world that destroys the real people that are inside it?. Or should he let the fake world live on and trust that the real people will leave when they are over their grief?
Renoir is correct

Anyone taking verso's side is a hypocrite and a retard

You're playing a video game aren't you?

b-but daaad, i promise i'll leave!

ok fine, i believe you

lmao, fuck off i'm busy ODing

He was right all along.

Then you must beat Simon.
Only then you're ready to beat the rest of Act III.
If you're unable to beat Simon, then don't even bother trying to finish the main-plot fights.

let me ask you:
Can the "Real" People evolve past their limits and exit the Canvas themselves?

Anyone taking Verso's side has an IQ higher than 92

Everyone's a hypocrite. Who cares?

Thanks for your feedback
Alicia will not die that quickly so Aline would have all the time in the world to recover, but that wasn't my point
I'm talking about Alicia and the canvas
I'm talking about the Maelle ending, Renoir wanted to destroy the canvas to get Aline out, then to stop her from coming back and finally to get Alicia out too
But he gave up on that, he want to believe in his daughter so he will not destroy the painting anymore, atleast temporaly
Again i'm not talking about Aline, she could comeback at any moment, that's actually a potential plothole of the maelle ending but we don't have enough information about it so she's out of the equation for now
Anyway if Renoir doesn't come back to yeet Alicia out of the canvas in a far away future and she died from chroma exposure, and Aline didn't comeback either then neither Renoir or Clea would have any reason to destroy the painting anymore, it's already too late to save Alicia
And my initial question was would the canvas be destroyed from Alicia dying like some anons are insinuating, because from my understanding it's verso that's powering the painting not the other way around.

I'm not killing myself by not ever logging off and not exercising. I'm not playing because I need to hide from a reality I cannot deal with.
I play games to have fun in my spare time. That's not Alicia nor Aline.

why can't I enter the reacher? verso makes a gay comment that we should not enter

I'm talking about the Maelle ending

So am I.

And my initial question was would the canvas be destroyed from Alicia dying like some anons are insinuating

No one is insinuating this. Everyone is saying that Renoir, whose hope was betrayed, will destroy the canvas when Alicia kicks the bucket for being a paintwhore who od'ed on crack chroma. She has proven that everyone in the family whose name starts with A is not to be trusted.

You probably need to further Maelle's relationship first.

Hevel hevel, everything is hevel

So you're saying Renoir would destroy the painting out of spite? I honestly don't think he would, if there is nothing to save or protect in it, he would just leave it be

no, because they are not real in the sense on how those world are portrayed.. But they could live their lives and their own version of conscience. The problem was that Aline and Alicia/Maelle were basically junkies and too depressed so they doomed two wordls. The real people couldn't tell the real world from the fake one and the fake one even if they knew that they were in a fake world they had no choice.

That is the dumbest argument I've ever seen a maellefag make.
I stop playing videogames, even if it's just for something like eating/drinking/shitting/pissing/sleeping, I still cease to do the thing.
Aline and Alicia don't stop running around inside a painted world.

So you're saying Renoir would destroy the painting out of spite?

No. Holy fucking shit. Did you even play the game at all?
He'll destroy it because it's a source of addiction. It's what Aline taught him.

Thing is, there are people that can't even bring themselves to stop playing to take a piss. And that's not a good thing.

She has proven that everyone in the family whose name starts with A is not to be trusted.

Or ends with A

The second layer is also fake. We are observing it from a third layer.

but she is 16

This is what I'm pointing out. In most JRPGs. Hell FFXVI does this. The usual mortal Champion would surpass his limits and become as powerful as a God in his own terms.

What happens in Act 3 is the inverse of that: God makes a mortal Her Avatar. OP is right Maelle isn't Maelle anymore, nor are the other party members. Any will or idea Maelle had is being corrupted or mixed with who Alicia is.

How hard is it to accept that concept?

If she can conceive a child, she is old enough. Biologically speaking of course.

And these people need to have their PS5s destroyed as much as Renoir needs to destroy the canvas.

Clea isn't fucking off huffing narnia fumes though. She's a little too busy trying to prevent painters from going extinct.

She has proven that everyone in the family whose name starts with A is not to be trusted.

Alicia just needs a lot of hugs and kisses and she will become an angel like painted Alicia.

Wait a second, why didn't Painted Renoir just explain everything and team up with the Expedition? Why did he try to kill them?

Would it be hilarious that the reason Renoir wasn't there to pull the plug on Alicia on Maelle Ending is because the Writers are already attacking the manor again

Because painted renoir was a fake idealization of Aline.

Yeah that's his initial motivation but after everything that happen, he just left it and let maelle sort her shit out instead
So if he let her be to the point where she would actually died in the painting, then destroying it when "Alicia kicks the bucket for being a paintwhore who od'ed on crack chroma" wouldn't help anyone anymore, because like you said you idiot, she's already DEAD.
So if he would still destroy after the fact, it would be, guess what, OUT OF SPITE.
Now fuck off, I got the answer to my initial question, the painting is powered by verso, not by the painter currently manipulating the chroma.
and yes, there was a lot of anon insinuating that.

Nice one for sequel.

Probably because the times they interacted with expeditioners they tortured Verso and Alicia. Fool me once shame on you kind of deal.

He speaks in cryptic bullshit you will only understand on second playthrough so the conflict is not resolved then and there and so Verso isn't outed as someone who wants to help real Renoir destroy the painting and thus end the world. I don't think the game gives you any reasoning for why he doesn't reveal anything to the party and just talks to Verso, in a way only themselves will understand the context of the conversation.

Aline's version of her husband wanted the same thing the real Renoir wants

What does that say about Renoir

OP is right Maelle isn't Maelle anymore, nor are the other party members

that is the players choice. the world is fake anyway. The charcaters are whatever the players want to be.
The final objective is to save the canvas or to erase it. It's what the player wants it to be.

It didn't work before with 60 and he has no way of knowing what Maelle would do if she regained her memories.

he just left it and let maelle sort her shit out instead

No, he just left it hoping that Alicia wasn't bullshitting about staying "just a little longer".
The fact that she stays a lot longer just affirms his belief and what he was taught.
Had Alicia, who is the one most qualified for everyone to go "yeah I can see why she'd live in a fantasy world instead of reality", opted to go back to the real world it would shake Renoir's beliefs about addictive paintings and give him pause on destroying it.

You're playing a video game aren't you?

Not every second for the rest of my life.

Had Alicia, who is the one most qualified for everyone to go "yeah I can see why she'd live in a fantasy world instead of reality", opted to go back to the real world it would shake Renoir's beliefs about addictive paintings and give him pause on destroying it.

The real, so close yet so unreachable, golden ending, that can't happen because Alicia is addicted and in denial.

Alicia admits she's going to stay in the canvas until the day she dies. She'll eventually just get pulled out and spanked by Renoir.

it's millennia later in the canvas

every single day is a repeat of everyone gathering to see verso play at the operahouse

meanwhile the manor is burning around alicia frozen in front of the canvas

holy fucking kino

OR.... The Writers attack again and the Canvas goes byebye.

She has a writer's dick in every orifice, and one in her eyesocket

...

No, he just left it hoping that Alicia wasn't bullshitting about staying "just a little longer".

Semantics, that's exactly what I meant by letting Maelle sort her shit out. And i'm not saying that the rest of your post is wrong but it's irrelevant because if Renoir have his belief reaffirmed but still let Alicia died in the painting, then it mean he doesn't give a shit anymore, and if that's the case then he wouldn't give a shit about destroying the canvas either
My initial is if Alicia died then there is no point to destroy the painting anymore

No, Renoir turned them into chroma, Maelle took that chroma and turned them back into people.
That's why she is specifically shown to pick up Lune and Sciel's life force before she leaves Lumiere at the beginning of Act 3.

New Clair Obscur

new character is a Musician

also a fencer

Give her a name, anons.

My initial is if Alicia died then there is no point to destroy the painting anymore

Aline says hello.

My initial is if Alicia died then there is no point to destroy the painting anymore

There is, preventing Aline from going back in.

What the other people said. Also Renoir's core personality is wanting to do things exactly his way and not compromising/working with others.

if that's the one where he says "yeah gestrals are different they explain it to you in game" then that's just about their reincarnation ritual and not about how Lumierians work when brought back

Stop trolling, Aline wouldn't wait for Alicia death to comeback in the painting so it's irrelevant again

but still let Alicia died in the painting

esl aside, he's not going to let her die. He's going to pull her out when he's sufficiently demoralized on the prospect of her ever leaving willingly, and erase the canvas.

Nigger, Aline couldn't even wait to be fully recovered from a prolonged stay in the canvas before diving back in again.

i'm not poopsocking video games and fusing to my chair dumbass

Versa

Recto

Aline in her state of grief ressents Alicia. An Aline that can never move on don't care about her, she's going back in for herself, to see her dear Verso. She'd even sneak in that concert.

Aline wouldn't wait for Alicia death to comeback in the painting

The last time she rushed respawning in a painting she lasted all of 1 fight before gommaging back out.
She'll rest to last longer, and we know that time in canvas is accelerated.

Aline in her state of grief ressents Alicia

She doesn't resent Alicia. Painted Alicia was supposed to serve as a reminder that she's living in an escape from reality. Aline's own journal tells you that her looking at Alicia reflects the pain she's feeling from Verso's death back at Aline tenfold.
At some point in her stay that reflection just ceased to be and she got completely lost in the fantasy.

This guy gets it

Probably but if he doesn't then the canvas would be fine without alicia in it
You can't read, I just said the exact same thing, she wouldn't wait so if she doesn't comeback before Alicia death then it would probably mean she will never comeback, whatever the reason, so it's irrelevant
She resent her but doesn't hate her, and that wouldn't stop her from coming back, and I don't think she could sneak in, Alicia would probably sense her since she's in control of the canvas

canvas is accelerated

We don't know the ratio so we can only speculate on that, how long does Aline need to recover and how long does Alicia have left before dying from chroma exposure, we don't know that, but since Aline went back immediatly, I think she doesn't need to rest that much
And since Aline and Renoir were stuck for 67 years inside the painting, that mean alicia have probably at least 50 more years before going in the danger zone
He does raise one question, would Alicia dying of oldness inside the painting kill her in the real world too? Is that even possible?

if

pointless.

since Aline went back immediatly, I think she doesn't need to rest that much

She literally only lasted 1 fight, which doesn't even last the years that she spent in the painting beforehand and that's with her resting for the entirety of the beginning of act 3 to that part in the Renoir fight, which canonically includes the group going around the continent forming a corrupted chroma army.

that mean alicia have probably at least 50 more years before going in the danger zone

Neither Aline nor Renoir are walking briquettes with respiratory issues. Assuming Alicia has 50 is a huge fucking stretch.

The issue is that the game has one ending which completes the thematic arc about Greif at the cost of genocide.
And one ending that doesn't cause a genocide but ends with the characters falling prey to Greif and being consumed by it.

Most people naturally want to close out the thematic arc but also don't want to feel bad about the actins needed to get there and go into denial.

at the cost of genocide.

Who's being genocided though?
Lumiere is already empty.
We don't know what happens to a canvas when the soul in it stops painting so making the assumption that everything in it gets destroyed is a stretch.
The threat of the canvas' destruction comes from Renoir, which we have seen in this thread can be argued against if Alicia could show that she's not gonna be a crackhead like her mother.