BRING HIM BACK

valve caused irreparable damage by being dogshit caretakers

just crouch and it still one shots snipers

These are not mutually exclusive, friends. Youre both right.

*BATANG!*

This is a black thing, isn't it?

its not halloween yet

compfags

partially, but not entirely. The only bad thing is they're really stuck in their ways.

twitchtards

Twitchtards ruin any game.

overwatch

Correct. The worst time in the game is directly associated with Valve's fear from Overwatch. The compfags were just who they happened to turn to.

both bad

DONT SAY SANDMAN
DONT SAY SANDMAN
DONT DAY SANDMAN

I haven't played TF2 in like eight years but personally I always thought the Caber was anti-fun. It's weapon that lets a Demo just decide to take you out of the game at the cost of his own gameplay experience; that's bad design, plain and simple. It's an even worse version of the stuff anti-crit people whine about.

I liked caber solely because it was the only demo melee that wasn't focused on demoknight bullshit
I've mellowed out over the years and actually understand and appreciate the value of subclasses now but even then I still wish he had more options besides "bottle, reskinned bottle, nerfed into useless, or a third of another loadout that does nothing for this current one"

Only thing the caber needs is for its damage to be normalized on-hit like they did with explosives back in like 2008 or 09. The amount of damage the caber does scales with where you hit them because the explosion calculates from the distance between the target's origin instead of dealing a nice clean amount of damage on-hit anywhere. Along with the removal of damage spread, it's the reason why pipes do 100 damage flat now.
The sandman was a horrible failed experiment (to Robin Walker's own admission) from the very beginning that valve stubbornly refused to remove out of some twisted sense of pride. All it needed to be was annoying, not a free kill for any scout that wasn't retarded (most scout players). An on-hit knockback making it into a melee+ball force-a-nature would've been perfectly obnoxious without being free kills, might have even been worth preserving the cleaver combo (but recoding it to not trigger off of any slowdown ever like natascha bullets)

I loved sticky jumping and nuking Snipers with this
what did they do to it?

Nerfed the damage so you can't even one-shot Scouts with it.
Gave it a one-fucking-hundrer percent deploy speed penalty.
Made it swing slower.

Demoknight was aesthetically a retarded concept but from a gameplay standpoint you can understand valve's desire to replace the stickybomb launcher and create a version of demoman who needed to learn to use the nade launcher more.

Bring what back? TF2 is never getting another balance update again. You're screaming to the void. Play the game as it is or play something else, like TF2 Classic.

20th anniversary might bring something. Only catch is tf2 shares an anniversary with portal.

"Here's a blog post and a new community crate bro" - Valve

Cable nerf was objectively justified. Demo should not have a light class instakill on his melee slot.

Demo should not have a light class instakill on his melee slot.

so we should remove random crits from melee weapons too right?

random crits that every class has access to are very different from caber, retard.
Caber nerf was unironically deserved. Demo is already plenty powerful and his sole weakness is approached at melee where he can't effectively use his explosive weapons without risking massive self-damage, and correcting that weakness requires sacrificing his powerful midrange (booties, shields) or comes with a weapon switch penalty to make it so you're still punished for being caught offguard. Meanwhile caber oneshots light classes, always, and specifically punishes getting in the range where demo is supposed to be weakest.

Uncle Fil it's just a-

usually when you get into melee range as any class except for spy you've fucked up your positioning
the correct fix for the caber would be for it to do 125 self damage and keep it how it originally was

No, that sucks ass too. Like I said, Demo is supposed to be punished for coming close, needs to sacrifice midrange to correct that issue and should never have a free guaranteed oneshot on anything.

Sorry demochud, only the soldier is allowed to be strong.

twitchtards

It was youtubers, not twitch streamers. Twitch was a blip on the radar until about 2018-2019.

Soldier gets the market gardener yet no one complains about that.

The Market Gardener can't reactively oneshot any light class that comes close and people do in fact complain about it

they're not remotely comparable besides being melee weapons

35 Melee damage

50 Explosive damage (at full health)

150 Explosive damage (at <20% health)

Now it's capable of one-shotting light classes but only at the cost of killing yourself in the explosion. High-risk and high-reward.

Demo is supposed to be punished for coming close

you mean like fucking dying?

WHO CARES WHAT YOU THINK

YOU ATE ALL MY BREFFMINTS

Soldier has such good melee weapons. There's not really a bad option between them, besides the pain train I guess

If HL1 and HL2 is any indication valve actually puts effort into their anniversary updates. It's almost like their way of reminding people they used to be amazing game devs.

Thing is I also strongly suspect Valve resents TF2, it's very possible they won't show the it the same love they show Half Life.

Dying while taking another person out is not a punishment.

Problem is that none of those games had major changes through 20 years besides few minor fixes and updates.

TF2 code is pure spaghetti and lot of crap still is from closed beta like Ctap.

Did they release the SDK officially yet? Someone will fix everything

no stuns should be in this game.

forcing balance decisions in a game with random critical hits that instantly kill one or multiple people

i'll never understand it

If you are talking about something like reverted weapon stats mod it already exists. But it's pointless unless valve themselves change the actual game everyone plays. Almost no one gives a shit about custom mods and it's a miracle tf2 classic had several populated servers during its peak.

Crits can be disabled with a simple cvar, don't really matter for casual and comp disable it

TF2 SDK summed up: youtube.com/shorts/zEflfpjReEs

We're talking about code not even valve themselves wants to tangle with anymore. What really doesn't help is most tf2 modders are going to want to make something using a local inventory system and the way the code is set up in the SDK you're expected to have corresponding weapons in the live tf2 item server. Requiring people to untangle that part of the code.

equipping the caber

approaching the medic through either sticky jumping (by spending health or throwing away your strongest tool for the sticky jumper) or shield charging, both of which leave you incredibly vulnerable and easy to pick off

and have to wrangle TF2's dogshit melee hitreg at the end of it all

at best you both die on the spot assuming he isn't a retard roaming alone

not a punishment

Let's not act like TF2C is some dead unplayable mod.

create a version of demoman who needed to learn to use the nade launcher

And then they gave him booties

Knight is fundamentally broken because eyelander is broken, the speed increase fucks up the hitboxes, especially when charging and makes him behead you from across the room in 90% of situations
And then he just exits any fight he doesn't want to take, just like a scout, while being tankier than a soldier
Eyelander's bonuses should be split just like equalizer

Eyelander is risk reward weapon and not having stickies or even GL to defend itself suck and make him worse offensive class.

Full demoknights are dead weight soon as opponent setup proper defenses, or even have a sentry around.

Demo can cut 4 heads and switch to stickies and retain all bonuses

Yeah the booties were dumb. But it's not like valve pushed them as the thing to use. Having a nade launcher and actually using it is easily the best way to play demoknight.

There's not really a bad option between them, besides [the third best one]

?

Half-Zatoichi with random crits was better

Doing this is not at all the issue with Caber. The issue with Caber is playing normally as Demoman and ignoring your melee weapon until a scout comes close. You would normally die because you got caught in a bad spot and he's in the range where you're weakest. However, you have this hypothetical fixed caber, which means you can instantly kill both of you, turning a punishment for overextending into a fuck you for exploiting my weakness, bitch. That is the issue

Eyelander is the shitter stomper weapon. If you think it's OP it's because you play with idiots.

Pain Train is the one with an actual downside that matters since it applies even when you avoid pulling the thing out. Having said that it is to balance against a ridiculously good upside. (Seriously valve why did you think the fucking demo and soldier needed a double cap rate?)

NUMBERS
NUMBERS
NUMBERS

They should either
A. Make the caber as is but now with a 20 second recharge
B. Make it kill you, the person you hit, and have a 300 hu splash radius that has a base damage for 500

Just give it slower swing.

I'm tired of those fuckers magically get a face stab when i turn to kill them.

Youtubers are worse than any of these, because they can make the most retarded take ever, and get their audience to parrot it. Occasionally getting Valve to listen to them and implement their horrible ideas.

Posting only two servers for an entire fork of the game to make it look less dead

Straight up pathetic man

You make a Venn diagram of those groups, you're gonna get a circle

It's not dead if you can play on a server that's filled to full capacity.

When it works it works.

Random crits are the best.

Uncle Phil it was just a-