Learn to code. Learn to draw. Learn to make music. Make a game. Make two

Learn to code. Learn to draw. Learn to make music. Make a game. Make two.

learn to draw

do people still play games with 2d graphics? using 3D is quicker and easier

But I don't want to reduce myself to pixelshit. With all the tools it's easy but now try to make a good 3D game that doesn't suck ass.

I try, but grinding out code and trying to do productive things in gamedev makes me miserable.

His success largely came from the niche. Farming sims appeal to a wide range of gamers. Your old boomer who just wants a comfy farm simulator. Your autist minmaxing everything. Yoir girl who can just play a nice game with animals and dating and zero mechanical skill requirements. All of these people were totally underserved by game producers for decades. After Stardew, it's one of the most oversaturated genres. You will never replicate his success unless you also serve a good niche at the right time in its history where it needs you most. You will nevet be ConcernedApe making another fucking Open World Survival Craft.

I already made two and they suck, I've got to make even more and spend longer on them for them to turn out any good

Learn to draw

I have tried.
For decades I have tried.
Some people just aren't meant to overcome stupid fingers.
It's awful to be your own worst critic, but it's horrible when no matter the amount of time and effort you've put in what you make with your hands is nowhere near the quality that you made with your mind.

Calls it pixelshit

Can't make good 3d that isn't shit

guess everything is shit when you're a bad artist
sucks to suck kid

3D artists that don't have 2D skills are bad 3D artists.

Make two.

Woah isn't it a little early for that

You can just prompt a chatbot for all of those.

Destroyers don't create.

He's a talented developer, I'll give him that. But Stardew Valley is a skinner's box. Its story is about escaping the grind of a soulless 9-5. But then all the mechanics of the game are about grinding soullessly. People get addicted to the grind, and that's fun enough for them. But personally, when I finally snapped out of the haze I was in, I realized how unfulfilling it all was. A lot of the soul that comes from living the farm life isn't found in Stardew Valley. Unlike Harvest Moon, which actually makes you feel like you've escaped to a rural life.

t. ca3games.itch.io/

try to play giganigga

This game's files have been suspended

rip

No you haven't, you're making shit up to cope with the fact it takes considerable effort to git gud and will grasp at any excuse not to do it

Some people just have really low visual IQ and they can't do stuff like rotating objects in their mind.

spend 2 years leanring to draw

then spend 1 year learning to make good pixel art

spend 2 years to learn to code

spend 5 years developing the game

This doesn't take music into account, and this is all assuming you can live without income for 10 years.

I did the first two and I'm on my way to the third, I'll get back to you if you make this exact thread again in 5 years.

spend 2 years leanring to draw

If you're gonna do pixelshit because it's easy you can skip that part and fake it with shiny pixelart like eric barone.

spend 2 years to learn to code

More like 1 week with chatgpt

spend 5 years developing the game

Scope down, retard.

Alright, now all I need is a loving girlfriend who is willing to financially support my extremely risky venture.

Just say you want a sugar mama.

"Scope down"

A farming game that has to compete against stardew valley.

never!

I wonder if toby ever feels imposter syndrome because of him.

How the fuck is making a pixel art game an "extremely risky venture"? You already live at home for free with yoyr parents.

Unless you want to end with a model that uses a bilion trilion polygons and bricking your cpu with material calculations you'll have to settle for texturing your stuff

Drawing is purely a technical skill, it's almost entirely time spent practicing. Unless you've been teaching yourself with the wrong material for decades then stop lying and start drawing, faggot.

Ignorant baka anon. Barone didn't have a job while working on Stardew, his girlfriend was the one paying the bills. And yes a pixel art game with a dev time of 6 years is a risky venture, downright suicidal.

You don't have to make a farming game. You could make something original or something in a genre that hasn't seen much love lately just like how ConcernedApe created a game in the vein of Harvest Moon during a drought of farming games and revived the genre.

Why not try something like Plants vs Zombies or a more traditional Tower Defense game? EA is basically sitting on the PvZ IP without doing anything with it. Instead of plants and zombies, make it, uh, Summoners vs Necromancers or something.

Just learn 3d, just learn how the engine works, just learn how to animate, just learn how to optimize, just learn how to market your game

It's also because Harvest Moon/Story Of Seasons didn't really release on PC until relatively recently IIRC. At the time of SV's release, there wasn't anyone really competition in HM/SoS's niche so he didn't have competition and SV just hit that itch just right for a lot of people.
At least Marvelous woke the fuck up and actually started putting their new games on PC.

Just be like Concerned Ape bro

No, not like that! Do less than he did!

List of 'dead' genres

Rail Shooters
Strategy Role Playing Games (think Fire Emblem)
Tower Defenses
Action Platformers (think Kirby or Mega Man)
Mystery Dungeons/Dungeon Crawlers
Real Time Strategy
Shop Management games (think Kamidori Alchemy Meister or Recettear ) Though it very much seems like Concerned Ape's next game is going to be in this genre, because him reviving farming games wasn't enough

You could also just take a dead IP and copy that. Nintendo is sitting on loads of 'em. Wario Land, Wario World, Punch-Out, F-Zero, Pushmo, Picross, Yoshi's Island, and more. There's also other series that are practically dead, like Bomberman, Mega Man, Castlevania, Contra, and so on.

I have actual respect for this guy, and he's humble as fuck. Went from barely scraping by to a multimillionaire, and had a girlfriend that believed in him. His game is pretty damn good too.

no he fucking isn't you retard
lmao... respect, he would scrape you off his shoe.
kys goyim cattle

Less

Stardew Valley launched with a fraction of the content it has now. Marriage was end game. Shane, Krobus, and Emily weren't marriageable. No fish ponds. No multiplayer. No tea. No Ginger Island. 2 pets. Pet bowl, greenhouse, and farmhouse couldn't be moved. No community upgrade. Only 1 farm type. No sewing machine. No theater. No Leo. No Raccoon family. No carrots, summer squash, powder melon, broccoli or cactus fruits. No sheds, mills, obelisks, or even gold clock. No Perfection.

All there was to do was befriend villagers and earn money. And it sold millions.

I never get hooked into the game for long. I usually drop it after a year, but I respect one man's fun little project turning into a life changing career choice. What he did was pretty incredible and he did it without being some jew nepobaby and the game was advertised through word of mouth alone, now it's the best selling Steam game of all time. Dangerously based

Yeah, you know what Concerned Ape did? He saw a genre from his childhood that was being neglected and he made a game for it that revitalized that genre. You can do the same. There are several dormant genres that are looking for the next big thing to revive them.

webm

game of life?

this. Not everyone can NEET.

watching the Bobby Lee interview with Eric Barone

Bobby is fanboying over Barone the whole time

shows him his farm

he literally has over 1000 hours played

honestly even if you fail, you learned some new shit for your next project and have a better grasp on what to do or you learn that game dev isn't the thing for you and that's fine
the main hard part of about game dev is the commitment and the time you have to spend on it, you have to be willing to grind out a project that you're not sure is gonna do well at the end
even if someone makes a failed game, if they actually manage to dish out a complete game that's still commendable even if I'll give the game shit for being bad.

And despite all that. The game still had a lot of features.

Sorry anon, but you're missing the part where you put your heart and soul into the project. If you're just looking to make a quick buck by exploiting a niche genre, then you're not really doing what concerned ape did. And the audience will probably sniff you out as a fraud, and not buy your game.

Not a nepobaby, but he had support. I recall some story about some girl letting him work on the game while she worked and paid the bills. Or something like that.

His girlfriend had a full time job and supported them while he worked part time at a theater and on Stardew Valley with the rest of his time. She believed in his project and stayed with him the 6 years he worked in it, he's married to her now, and realistically they would never need to work another day in their lives now.

Still more content than everything that came out after it. Faggots buying early access shit like Fields of Mistria have literally zero standards.

Hear that, everyone? Just find a girlfriend who believes in your project, and willing to wait 6 years, and you too can become a successful game developer.

Did he release the Haunted Chocolatier or whatever his second game is called?

how the fuck? I played until year 5, grinded for the obelisks and golden clock and that sucked the soul of me. imagine playing until year 11

All the farming games that came out after SD are mediocre at best. Try to have the same opinion when a superior game to SD fails.

For some people it's relaxing and therapeutic. That's what Bobby said about it, anyways.

Does Stardew Valley have SOVL? Unironically though

WAHHHHHHH IM NOT CHAD AND CANT GET A GF SO THAT'S WHY I SIT AROUND ALL DAY JERKING OFF AND POSTING WOMAN HATE THREADS ON Anon Babble WHILE LIVING OFF MY PARENT'S DIME INSTEAD OF MAKING A GAME! IF I WERE CHAD I WOULD FINALLY DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE

why are incels like this?

On it boss. You got it.

Bobby talked about playing the game a lot. He wasn't kidding. When he's not going comedy or acting, he's usually vegging out, playing some game that requires grinding and base building. That's the stuff he likes most.

I'm gonna let you in on a cold, hard truth, anon. Because I have a feeling you're a nepobaby.

ConcernedApe is not an asshole nepobaby, but he IS a nepobaby. If you go to college and don't take out a 20-30K+ loan, or get by on scholarships, you're a nepobaby. I'm pretty sure ConcernedApe wasn't working a McDonalds job while going part time to University. Now I'm not saying everything was handed to him on a silver platter, but he's no unprivileged minority.

From what I've read, ConcernedApe only took a theater job so that he can "Get out of the house". He didn't take the job for the money.

Who the fuck says I'm trying to make a farming sim?

You are just approaching it wrong. You are trying to learn an imaginary skill instead of actually trying to learn and when you fail to grasp the imaginary skill then you lose hope.

Of course I'm talking from the perspective that you're just at a weak moment and are not truly giving up. Because when someone gives up he never had the most essential quality you need to get good, which is not giving up.

Akshually, he had a part time job at a cinema.

Oh wow really? Well well well, don't I have egg on my face.

If you're an aspiring gamedev, I want you to go to steam and check out the Discovery Queue thing, you'll see hundreds and even thousands of new games released daily. You will be a drop of piss in the ocean. Do you still wanna give it a try? Then chances are you're passionate about it and don't expect much of it, that's great and I wish you luck.
Don't do it because you think you will make Undertale 2, that's like winning the lottery.

I think we all need to pause and recognize the difference between neopbaby and wealthy. Those are two different concepts. Don't want to water the term down by misuse. I'll grant his family might be wealthy. I don't know much about him. But if he's attended college debt free, like you claim, then sure he's got some cash. But being a nepo baby means that you either have family ties to the business. Or, your family has connections to someone else who is in the business. And they do favors for you.

Being a nepo baby does not mean merely having money. It's having the connections that matters.
Being a nepo baby is certainly not about acquiring scholarships.

and if every game dev thought like you, there'd be no games
you do it for yourself and to make something simple as

That way of thinking is too simplistic. Follow your own example but with the additional question of "how many games here are actually even half as good as Stardew Valley, even just from first glance" You will come up with a number that will be very close to 0.

Most steam games that get released are just scams from indians or chinese people.

Sorry anon, but you're missing the part where you put your heart and soul into the project.

Well obviously. You don't just make an indie game because you're broke. You could start a YouTube Channel or write a fantasy smut book for the Tiktok femoid audience if you really needed money. You make indie games because you want to put something out into the world that you'd enjoy (or you're Indian trying to scam people on Steam)

I've got over 1k hours in SDV too, but the longest I've played any save is only 150 hours. I usually quit once I get 100 walnuts on Ginger Island (or reached endgame for the saves from before 1.5). I've only done Perfection once.

And 95% of those you can easily see are pure shit and had no chance off the get go. If you actually want to put in the effort, know what it takes to make a game that has a reasonable possibility to sell and what that finished product needs to look like, and can accept that you might not get there, there is nothing wrong with pursuing your goal.

I don't disagree. SDV was a great bang-for-your-buck game even on release. Very cheap for how much content you were getting. The base game had like 30 hours worth of content from a $20 game, one that also frequently went on sale.

Most retards here can't even reach cris' level. They would 100% be part of those shit games you see in the discovery queue.

It's incredibly soulful, though you can suck the soul out if you just want to optimize the shit out of it.

And 95% of those you can easily see are pure shit and had no chance off the get go.

Yeah, if you're just using assets you bought off of Fiverr, you're never going to be successful. oh wait I'm talking about balatro

Release a game

get better at game dev

release next one faster

get better at game dev

on and on

built portfolio of published games

either pursue game dev employment with portfolio

or churn out more projects

or making educational videos for beginners

or freelance making your preference assets or programming tools

If you actually want to put in the effort

we're on Anon Babble tho

You don't need to be the next Stardew or Undertale. Even just 0.1% of their success would allow you to do this long term as a full time job.

The Indian/Chinese scam games will flood the discovery queue, yes, which is why you can advertise your game on the Western Internet. Give early access keys to the largest streamer you can find that's willing to play it. Post about it on Twitter. Upload pre-release videos on YouTube.

Hell, you could go the Notch route and let people play for free on Anon Babble and then release a paid version once you get enough content to charge for it.

You can't pet your animals in Stardew.

Concerned Ape earned, at a minimum, $30 million from SDV. 0.1% of that would be $30,000. That's enough to live on if you live in a Third World country. If you live in New York City that's 10 months of rent.

t. has never played the game

Wtf buny would never

I see what you mean, when I see aspiring drawfags they instantly wanna get lots of commissions and shit like that but man, that shit takes time and effort. You have to git gud and put the work. I know people that don't even use the typical bait of drawing fanart and they still get commissions for outrageous prices, like we complain about 80 bucks for games but they manage to get that per work. And it's sad to see people to think that just because they got a Vgen code they will instantly get customers, it's very common to see on social media posts that go "I got in Vgen but no one buys anything there...". No little bro, you're just not good enough, and same thing happens with gamedevs. Just make shit, get your shit together and improve your shit.

Yes you can. You're expected to, even. If you take the soulless route you can get a machine to do it for you.

Is this some sort of inspiration speech for zoomers?

I'm working on it, monkey man. I'm bad at it. But I'm working on it.
i notice a distinct lack of "learn to write"

Concerned Ape earned, at a minimum, $30 million

You are taking the absurd low ball estimate. The high ball is somewhere about 300-400 million.

SD alone sold more than 40 million copies so no way he only earned 30 million. Also from 100k you should be able to live comfortably in any country in the world for at the very least 2 years. Fuck off with your New York shit for a job you can do anywhere in the world you have access to electricity and internet.

Learn to write

Nigga what the fuck are you writing a story for in a video game?

Monkeman earns an easy 30 mill

Chris Hunt and his lil sis Nat made around $11 million after chipping away at it for 12+ years

Notch hit the jackpot walking away with the kind of capital that makes the whole thing look like a great cosmic joke

why even bother drawing when there's AI

So I can put dumb jokes in the inventory menu descriptions and hopefully make people smile a little.

Make two.

WHERE'S THE CANDY SHOP GAME

Comedic item descriptions are something you think of in the shower or on your drive to work over the course of a year rather than all at once. Inspiration isn't something you can develop. It just strikes you.

Its story is about escaping the grind of a soulless 9-5. But then all the mechanics of the game are about grinding soullessly. People get addicted to the grind, and that's fun enough for them.

Kinda makes you think huh

A lot of the soul that comes from living the farm life isn't found in Stardew Valley. Unlike Harvest Moon, which actually makes you feel like you've escaped to a rural life.

Elaborate?

that's why you carry a notebook/phone at all times to write that shit down before it disappears

Inspiration isn't something you can develop

is inspiration not just focused creativity?

Nta but I do think you can frequently be struck with it depending on what your surround yourself with. I never actively pursued game dev until I had a wife and son. Now I have a game published and feel pretty damn good about every day of my life.

Haunted Chocolatier's dev blog got a new post a few days ago

nobody cares because it's just schizo-tier word salad

i would but all my ideas are bad

is inspiration not just focused creativity?

Absolutely not. Do you think this shit is like dbz where you can go

and now I'll get inspired AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR

If it happens while you're working in your game then cool. But if it doesn't then you need to catch all the ideas your brain throws at you.

Most people here had the time but wasted it away.

will do, buddy

this is pure unadulterated cope from a loser who will never make it

Inspiration? It’s not some cute little synonym for “focused creativity,” you intellectual lightweight. It’s a lightning bolt, a gut-punch from the universe that makes you feel like you’re choking on your own potential. It’s the thing that keeps you up at 3 a.m., sweating, scribbling ideas on a napkin because your brain’s on fire. Focused creativity? That’s just discipline doing push-ups in the corner, grinding out results like a good little soldier. Inspiration doesn’t wait for you to “focus”. It kicks down the door and demands you keep up. You think Picasso sat there “focusing” his creativity like some desk jockey organizing spreadsheets? No, he was possessed, driven by something bigger than his own ego, something that made him paint like his life depended on it. Focused creativity is what you do when inspiration’s already left the room and you’re just trying to fake it til you make it. Don’t confuse the spark with the sweat. One’s divine, the other’s just labor.

. Do you think this shit is like dbz where you can go

>and now I'll get inspired AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR

Yes.

Maybe it's the Monster Ultra Blue Hawaiian making my brain work in overdrive but I understood what he was trying to say perfectly.

He's saying that he wants to make chocolate making fun and whimsical but knows that there will be people who optimize the chocolate making process to such a degree that it becomes a drag. Video games are products that have set lines of code and there's always going to be an optimal, mechanical, rote method of perfecting the process. Meanwhile chocolate making in real life operates more off of whimsy. That's why there are so many artsy fartsy chocolate treats in real life, like a Cherry Cordial or Dubai Chocolate.

You buy/make chocolate in the way you want it made, not the most optimal chocolate. Food is all about your tastes, but a computer program doesn't have tastes. The best you can do is create a facsimile of taste since the computer program has no soul. Otherwise people would only create the best chocolate like how people would only farm the highest ROI crops in Stardew Valley if not for the Community Center and Perfection requiring you to branch out.

Thank you ChatGPT.

That's all and good, but you get fucked if you don't know marketing.

this is both true and also loser cope. If you are hard working, have good taste, and confident in your abilities, you can absolutely reproduce SDV success.

No, man, inspiration is like when you get a random power up rather than working towards it. Inspiration is Gohan going Beast, not Gohan training his ass off to unlock Super Saiyan 2.

Heh yeah.

he hates the wiki minmaxing autism and is trying to make a game that prevents that to force players into having intuitive fun instead of just reading everything online

Every time I think this man can't get any more based, he does something that makes him that much more based

how do you cheat the system to save up your inspiration capsules? surely there must be some manner. other than just doing drugs.

he wants to make chocolate making fun and whimsical but knows that there will be people who optimize the chocolate making process to such a degree that it becomes a drag.

so what?? you can be whimsical in stardew valley too, or you can optimize and make a trillion gold with artisan products, that didn't stop the game from being fun. that entire post of his is nothing but 6 paragraphs of procrastination. people can still be whimsical but people are also going to mod in gigafactories to make thier own toblerone because guess what?? min maxing and going big is just a different kind of fun.

we should be getting those more often then, or that means all of Anon Babble lack those qualities you mention

Regarding the discussion of inspiration in this thread, the Greeks actually believed inspiration was divine in nature and would pray to the Muses (and Apollo) to be struck by inspiration. Inspiration is the driver of innovation and has been since time immemorial. Some people are more susceptible to inspiration than others.

Even most big companies can't match that success. As a game dev you should see SD as an inspiration but you should be totally realistic in how unrealistic it is to become even remotely as successful. Making this a real job is already extremely hard.

considering the amount of shovelware slop that i sift through daily on steam i wished there were less

a game has to be fun

So that's why all the erotic sex games fucking suck. They're never actually fun. But then again, what the fuck is fun? Some people only have fun woth a battle pass and vtuber cosmetic items. Some people find fun in reading pages about a sad old man missing his bitch wife. Is it just a matter of not trying to meet everyone's fun requirement at once?

Does your character's sprite physically reach out and touch the animal? No. So how can you say you pet them?

You can up your rate of getting struck with inspiration by consuming more varied forms of media. Listening to music you normally wouldn't, playing a new genre of video games, watching an anime that you hadn't given much thought to before, etc.

A lot of my inspiration is wasted on witty Anon Babble posts.

Porn games sucking is mainly because most of these games are made by artists that just picked up programming.

If you can physically feel the animal's fur, then you didnt really pet them. That means no game has animal petting.

Do the characters talk despite their mouths not moving? I hope you're just extremely autistic because I hope to god you didn't think you stated anything clever.

He wants to avoid a situation like Stardew Valley where people just use one of the 3 optimal ways of making money while ignoring everything else. If he wanted to use an example, he'd probably bring up Wine in SDV where there's 0 reason to make anything other than Starfruit Wine after the 1st year unless you want to use the slightly more hands off while slightly less optimal Ancient Fruit Wine method.

He doesn't want to repeat that mistake where there's 1 optimal flavor and everything else is pointless. He tried to have reasons to make non-optimal farms in Stardew Valley with villagers liking different produce, needing to grow 20 of every crop for Perfection, and Community Center bundles requiring sub-optimal crops like tomatoes, potatoes, pumpkins, and etc. However, there is no real way to make a completely intuitive and whimsical approach to chocolate in a video game since you cannot simulate tastes.

Villagers don't just randomly get in the mood for a chocolate covered strawberry like real life humans do. That's what he's getting hung up on.

It's an indie game, remember. Concerned Ape isn't an animator. He had to learn everything needed to make the game from scratch so I can cut him some slack for not having a petting animation for each animal.

why does dubai raghead chocolate have poop in it?

that's what i heard and i do consume a lot of weird different types of media, albeit with the feeling that it doesn't match any actual life experiences in terms of usability, and sometimes inspiration does strike but i hate it because i can always tell exactly what the specific source was and how many steps away from plagarism i am. i know people say every story has already been told but it isn't the same, it makes me feel like a ten year old making crossovers on deviantart. it's artificial inspiration. i think i'm just broken

learn to draw

Done

learn to make music

I have someone of an idea. I'm confident.

learn to code

Literally how?

pick unity/gamemaker/whatever

how do I do X on this engine

look up thousands of tutorials

???

start making smaller tests

forums are gay and take too long so you can also ask chatgpt

Nowadays it's so fucking easy to learn anything, people just don't wanna even try.

Make a game. Make two.

Why? There's too fucking many games as is. The amount of videogames should be reduced to 1000 so I can play all of them. Same for movies, books, songs etc. Just reduce all human culture down to 1000 best examples and eliminate everything else. It's all chaff anyway.

Ps. Human population should be lowered down to 1 million people, split into 1000 micro-countries with 1000 people in each that are prevented from interacting with each other.

Elaborate?

You can actually tend to your animals, which Stardew never included. In the HM games I played, you're given a brush. And with that brush to brush your animals. In some of the latter games, touch screen was introduced, and you could pet your animals with the stylist. You could play catch with your dog. There was even a mini game for your cat. Rounding up animals was tricky. You had to ring the bell to call your cows to you, and then physically push them indoors. You had to pick up all of your chickens, and walk them inside. It just gave you that tiny bit of connection to the creatures living on your farm. Made it feel more alive.

Stardew Valley treats animals like Grandmas from Cookie Clicker. They exist to periodically create a product you can sell.... that's it. You can """"pet"""" them by going up to them and tapping the A button. But that's all. That was also a feature in Harvest Moon. But in HM, you would get accompanying text like "Mrs Cow is looking great today!" As if you were actually talking to your animals. In SV, when you interact with the cows, they only show a little heart icon, and nothing more. That way you can just tap them all as quickly as possible. It's expedient, but soulless.

Disingenuous arguments

Petting your animals is the reason to own the animals in the first place. He should have included a petting animation before including many other features. But alright, let's go with that notion... Why was petting never updated with all the content expansions he put out? It's been years, and he can't include a petting animation? Seriously? Lame excuse, anon.

Sorry, wrong pic.

I'll be more careful next time.

Hey buddy, wanna make a project? I got all the coding know how you'd ever need

Learn to code.

Not a real job. Replaced by AI. Doesn't fulfill Medicaid work requirements

Learn to draw.

Not a real job. Replaced by AI. Doesn't fulfill Medicaid work requirements

Learn to make music. Make a game.

Not a real job. Replaced by AI. Doesn't fulfill Medicaid work requirements

That career path is effectively fucked.

1. Most games are hot garbage. We need more good games.
2. Human desire is literally infinite. There will always be demand for more and new things.

The intelligent argument to make is that the bonding system is primitive and not even fun, a petting animation may impress retards but it changes nothing about how primitive the gameplay is.

But as primitive it is, at least you can get it quickly over with. I don't know if it was intentional but concernedape has realized that brushing or petting animals in Harvest Moon games was absolute garbage, especially that horrendous brushing minigame that was in the DS game. And while he didn't find a better solution he at the very least removed all tedium from it. Petting a pet takes a microsecond in SD while in Harvest Moon it takes 2-3 seconds. At its core it's the same gameplay, the same boorish chore you have to do. But that the action is extremely smooth and quick in SD makes all the difference. SD made all the chores that way. Even if they suck, at least you can get them quickly over with. Though thank god in the other systems he found other solutions that improve the chores in other ways than just removing the tedium like the sprinklers.

Literally how?

ChatGPT, Grok, etc will literally write code for you. It's good to get a basic understanding programming and code structure, but these LLMs basically do the job of like 5 software engineers.

hates min/max

code for 10 hours a day
playtest for 12
feed your mind
get a clue

Meanwhile the reality will be that people will start shunning bigger games because they just endlessly receive AI slop and it will start the second indie game renaissance.

Make two.

YOU FIRST ERIC

Nice cope.

alright which old and popular japanese game should I take inspiration from?

I have a game idea with no experience making a game. I can however 3D model, do art, and I make my own music sometimes for fun. How can I leverage AI in assisting me make a game? Sorry if this garners a bit of hate, but I'm probably going to make it in Unity or UE because they seem accessible. But ya how to use AI in making this possible?
And no I won't be sharing my game idea, ya filthy kike thieves. EEYYYYYYYY

Mappy.

I don't know, I imagine they'll find some way to strongarm indie devs out of business.

Literally how?

Just use ai at this point.

Telling someone that can't code to just use LLMs is almost devilish. Most time in programming by far is used up by fixing bugs, not coding the initial framework and features.

Copy pasting code you don't understand and later trying to figure it out and fixing it is the shit that rapists and murderers do in hell each day as a form of extreme torture.

It's pistachio and flaky dough.

Pick an AI tool, tell it to which engine you are using, and then tell it what you want. Start simple, like how to import and integrate your art into the engine, and then maybe basic character movement. Then implement. If you run into any errors, give as detailed error logs to the AI as possible, it will then (usually) spit out correct code. Rinse and repeat for every feature you want.

You literally can just ask what the fuck does a piece of code do. You can even steal code from some site and ask it to explain it.

I would like to do all those things, any tips, ideas, guides of where to start and where to share?

HELLO? HOW CAN I MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS???

fucking end your life, redditor.

you can't just hand all your code to someone and ask them to identify a tiny flaw in thousands of lines

AI does this right now. And it will tell you why it's flawed. It's not always right, but neither are many software engineers

AI can only identify mistakes that a compiler would catch, not tell you why code isn't behaving the way you want it to

I am that anon. Your choices for competent coding AI are gemini, chatgpt or claude. Paying for this is gay so you can just use chatgpt which is the most flexible in that regard I guess.

You left out the most important part:

get lucky

Oh no... I have to actually spend time with the animals on the farm... the horror...

Oh wow a disingenuous argument that completely misses the point. Who could have expected that kind of response.

You are not spending any meaningful time with your animals, you're doing the same stupendous action thousands of times.

brush animation takes like 1 full second. Maybe 1.5 seconds,

Are you capable of using basic math? Just brushing the animals 2000 times for 1.5 seconds each is already almost an hour wasted on nothing.

Not only is brushing a pointless chore but it actively robotizes your relationship with the animals. Not to mention they are always the same and behave completely predictably. With the villagers at least they give you new dialog as rewards and presents. The social system with the animals is pure shit in any Harvest Moon and also Stardew Valley. The devs of either have found no meaningful way to abstract the animal - farmer relationship and their only solution was a short repetitive chore.

not tell you why code isn't behaving the way you want it to

it actually can do this fairly well. In my experience, if you can clearly verbalize what isn't working correctly in your game and explain how it should work (examples are good), it usually spits out a solution in one or two tries. Even if it's not correct first few attempts, going through this process can often give you more clues as to what the issue is

I couldn't get ChatGPT to make a basic script for playing a sound every x minutes except when something else is going on, it just wouldn't accept the fact two things need to be going on at the same time and kept recommending solutions to either one or the other

do this

do that

How about this, get yourself some bitches

Thank you, brother. When I get something that can be play tested a little, I promise you get a free copy :D you'll know it when I post it up here months down the line.

Forever dreaming of fields of clovers

what does his wife look like

Manually writing something is not a concept. You still have to know how all this works or you will be hopelessly lost.

A LLM is not a further layer of abstraction. It's a algorithm PREDICTING output based on input. Stop misinforming people because you're a hopelessly lazy and useless retard.

get you a man who loves you as much as concernedape loves his jacket

why not just ai?

Might be a prompt issue Writing prompts is a skill. You need to be as clear and detailed as possible, and provide examples. And this is actually a good skill in game design because it forces you to have a clear understanding of what you want and how it should work.

Jas

Because no good game exists made with AI.

Let's be real. You probably don't even know how your engine's renderer works. And it really doesn't matter.

The layer of abstraction you propose won't exist until ALL coding is just prompting AI in English and no actual manual code

If we are actually real then the reality is that sometimes a micro bug will take you days to fix. Increase that factor by 10 if you have no programming skills and purely rely on AI.

Oh wow a disingenuous argument

Not disingenuous at all. Your entire argument hinges on the notion that spending time on the animals feels bad. But if I and many others don't feel bad for spending time with the animals, then your argument is demoted from objective to subjective. From fact to opinion. You are of the opinion that the old mechanics were horrible. That is all.

You are not spending any meaningful time with your animals, you're doing the same stupendous action thousands of times.

Hello? Have you every maintained a relationship with anyone or anything for any extended period of time? You will find that you're doing the same thing a thousand times. You own a cat? You're going to pet it a million times. Own a dog? You're going to walk it a million times. That's the experience of owning these animals. If that sounds bad to you, then you don't actually like owning animals. So don't own animals. Duh.

Just brushing the animals 2000 times for 1.5 seconds each is already almost an hour

That's 50 minutes. You tacked on 10 whole minutes. Are you capable of math?
How many times are you going to brush your animals during an average gaming session. Let's say you have plenty of time to game this day. You go for a whole 8 hours. From the Stardew wiki "An hour of the game consumes 43 seconds of real-time, a day consumes 14 minutes 20 seconds from 6am to 2am". You will play about 33.8 days. Let's round that up to 34. This doesn't even include instances where the game stops the clock. Which would make a day take longer.

So over the course of 34 days, how long would it take to brush the cows. If your farm is still new, you might only have 1 or 2 cows. So 2 cows * 34days * 1.5 seconds = 102 seconds. Or, 1 minute and 42 seconds.
But let's say it's late in the game. And for some reason, you filled an entire fully upgraded barn with all cows.(why you would do this, I do not know) That's 12 cows, * 34 days * 1.5 seconds = 612 seconds

Eric if you're in this thread, you should totally write a metalcore song for haunted chocolatier ;)

So in summary: Over the course of 8 hours. You might spend anywhere between 51 seconds to 10 minutes and 12 seconds brushing cows. Let that sink in. OVER EIGHT HOURS, you can spend anywhere between 00:51 seconds to 10:12 brushing cows. And that's a big fucking deal to you?

chatgpt code

Apexkek

Increase that factor by 10 if you have no programming skills and purely rely on AI.

that's why you play test A LOT. Also, most junior engineers will probably introduce same amount of not more bugs. Many people have no idea what they're doing

Oh and also, you say that they haven't found a meaningful way to abstract the animal - farmer relationship. But earlier you dis miss the touch screen mechanic, which actually makes interacting with the animal more fun. You don't even want a better way. You just want the soulless expedient way.

ape knew about and subtly encouraged all the jasfags

How can one dev be so based

Have you every maintained a relationship with anyone or anything for any extended period of time?

Have you? There exists no relationship in the world where you repeat the same action with predictable results each time and then the relationship grows in a linear way.

The pure predictability of the process for a predictable result is what brings in the dread. If I pet a cat I do it exactly at the moment when I want to do it, then the cat can react in many different ways. It might love it, it might want to play instead, it might even playfully bite me. There are dozens of outcomes. Not knowing exactly what the cat will do is what makes it so good, in addition to the tactile feel and warmth of petting a cat.

All of this is completely lost. I see you spend a great deal with the math argument but you didn't counter any of it, you are just saying it's not that bad for reasons. You're not saying how doing the same action with the same result over and over is going to build a meaningful relationship with the animals. It's just a number game. You touch a horse 1000 times and it's going to have a certain amount of love for you.

You didn't engage at all with any of my arguments but hyper focused on the math behind it which doesn't even prove a point for you or disproves a point of mine. You simply have no arguments. The fact is that a robotic action hurts the organic feel of a relationship and doesn't help it.

But earlier you dis miss the touch screen mechanic, which actually makes interacting with the animal more fun.

No it doesn't. It's literally the same thing. A robotic response for the same action each time, just 100 times longer than normally. You are heavily autistic because you find joy in robotic chores.

Emily weren't marriageable

I would lose all motivation.

This doesn't take music into account, and this is all assuming you can live without income for 10 years.

Do it while continuing to hold down your regular job?

Your arguments are starting to become heavily confusing because you're losing touch with what is argued here.

that's why you play test A LOT.

Has absolutely nothing to do with anything, the fuck are you bringing this up for?

Also, most junior engineers will probably introduce same amount of not more bugs

What has this to do with anything? We are discussing making a game with AI with the only difference being that someone learned some fundamentals and someone is purely relying on AI.

I don't have the discipline necessary to spend even 5 minutes learning code, this dude sat in a tiny corner in a half broken piece of shit ACER monitor and spent 6 years teaching himself how to program his own engine, make his own pixel art and compose his own music. You have to be wired differently than me to do that.

Stardew Valley has generated an estimated $300 million to $450 million in revenue, with over 30 million copies sold. The game's gross revenue is estimated at $518,045,046.24, with the developer's net revenue estimated at $152,823,288.64, according to Steam Revenue Calculator.

is is this true?..

NTA but I genuinely have difficulty comprehending perspective in 2D paintings, like I always see depth as a flat plane. I can't even fathom trying to DRAW something I can barely observe.

How? How is that shit not boring? What the fuck is WRONG with normalfag brains?

I'm hoping to get a laptop in July so I can start!

Has absolutely nothing to do with anything, the fuck are you bringing this up for?

a bug is an unintentional mistake that negatively impacts gameplay. If you play test, you will identify problems that can help you remove the "micro bugs".

What has this to do with anything?

you're suggesting that AI will take longer to fix bugs than humans. Unless you are a mid-senior level engineer, then I disagree. Most programmers don't know what they're doing and take forever to complete tasks. One of the biggest strengths of AI is saving time

LE INSTRINSIC PART OF LE HUMANITY

Of course this insufferable normalfag believes in souls and other ephemeral dogshit. We are shaved apes driven by electrical impulses, there is no magic or wonder to our being. Minmax is the natural progression of how you play a game because the only way you can change how you approach a game is to become more optimal. By his logic you should sometimes stand still and get shot in Doom because it makes it more organic.

There exists no relationship in the world where you repeat the same action with predictable results each time

Most instances you will get the same predictable reactions. Most creatures, including humans, are creatures of habit. So if you input the same, you get the same output. Sure, there are is variance in life. But not so much, as long as you're consistent.

In Harvest Moon, the variability comes with how well you take care of your cows. Say if you take them outside, then they actually enter a happier state. Their eyes are more smiley, and they animate in a frolic, rather than a mere walk. When you talk to them, you get text that reflects this heightened mood too. This happier glow can run into following days, but will fade if they haven't been outside in some time. Say due to rain. Or just player laziness.

Conversely, the cow's mood can sour if they've been neglected. Say you leave them out in the rain. Because in Harvest Moon, they don't put themselves away. You have to actually do it. If you neglect them, they'll stay out in the rain and feel worse the next day.

Not knowing exactly what the cat will do is what makes it so good

Funny you say that, but you dismiss the fact that Harvest Moon literally has a cat game, where the cat acts unpredictably. Increasing the relationship score with your cat makes them easier to handle, but never 100%. They're always a little wily. So you have to work on your technique as well.

I see you spend a great deal with the math argument

Because you completely misrepresented the amount of time it takes. And was so smug and insulting about it. Again, your entire argument hinges on the idea that spending time tending to your animals are bad. So when you say outrageous statement that it "takes an hour", you sound ridiculous. Most people will never reach an hour of cow brushing in their playthroughs, because they will never own 12 cows.

bobby lee

"normalfag"

looooool

podcast

name is public

face is public

gets upset if you say nigger near him

not a normalfag

Go back.

Not possible.

you disagreeing with him actually proves him right

a bug is an unintentional mistake that negatively impacts gameplay

No, a bug is unintended behavior. Plain and simple. This seems nitpicky but no one with even a little bit of proper programming training would fuck up the definition of a bug this badly.

If you play test, you will identify problems that can help you remove the "micro bugs".

Yes, testing the game is usually how you become aware of a bug but this has nothing to do with our conversation since it works exactly like that for both of us.

you're suggesting that AI will take longer to fix bugs than humans

No, I'm suggesting that a person without fundamental programming skills using AI for programming will create a horrendous unmaintainable mess and when then undesired behavior appears, aka a bug then it will take the AI only retard an extreme amount of time and effort to fix. Meanwhile the programmer has also used AI but he understood what the fuck he copied and seamlessly included it into his codebase so when a bug appears he will have a good chance of identifying it quickly.

That's such a Reddit view of this world holy shit.

le just a bunch of chemicals and brain signals

Fuck off

be concerned ape

straight up copy harvest moon friends of mineral town

get tauted as the new savior of videogames

???

how?

Prove it otherwise retard. No rhetoric, no bullshit word salad, just prove it. Pour me a glass of a soul.

It being intangible doesn't mean it doesn't exist. France doesn't physically exist, but everyone knows what France is.

France doesn't physically exist

I told you to give me proof, not a word salad. You lost the argument.

That's not word salad

based emilyfag

fuck up the definition of a bug this badly.

our definitions are the same except for the outcome (negatively impacts gameplay). Imo if it doesn't negatively impact gameplay it doesn't matter. Just my opinion.

nothing to do with our conversation since it works exactly like that for both of us.

If you identify the bug, you can understand it and explain it to AI. You write code, play test, and troubleshoot. Doesn't matter if it's you are the AI.

Meanwhile the programmer has also used AI but he understood what the fuck he copied

when you declare and initialize a variable, do you know where it's stored? Do you memorize the register locations and keep track of them during the variable's lifetime? No, you trust that your complier does this for you.

Most creatures, including humans, are creatures of habit. So if you input the same, you get the same output. Sure, there are is variance in life. But not so much, as long as you're consistent.

Already completely wrong. There are too many variables in real life for it to be predictable. You can be consistent in your own behavior but that doesn't mean other people will react consistently. If you had all information in the world, only then things would become consistently predictable. In a video game you usually immediately figure out how things work because they are extremely simplistic.

heir eyes are more smiley, and they animate in a frolic, rather than a mere walk. When you talk to them, you get text that reflects this heightened mood too. This happier glow can run into following days, but will fade if they haven't been outside in some time

What Harvest Moon are you talking about? You pulled almost all of that out of your ass. I know that bringing animals outside gives a bonus on affection but the affection is just a linear number. There are no extra details that appear only when you bring a cow outside.

Funny you say that, but you dismiss the fact that Harvest Moon literally has a cat game, where the cat acts unpredictably.

Which game, you just say Harvest Moon but you are not saying in which game that specific feature is. I believe a wonderful life had the most complex animal behavior and I don't remember that minigame. If it exists then good, but that doesn't change the point you made that the robotic chores like brushing and petting have meaning behind them when they really don't.

your entire argument hinges on the idea that spending time tending to your animals are bad

My argument is that a robotic action poorly simulates taking care of an animal and building attachment. And you never engage with that point at all. You never acknowledge how poor both games simulate this. Why are there not more way to interact with the animals?

Revive a genre. Revive two.

Legend says Eric can thank his girlfriend to his now-signature jacket. Not only did she work in the clothing store where he purchased it, but also happened to be the cashier when the man paid for it. Upon folding the jacket into a paper bag she couldn't resist to ask why would anyone get a such clothing item in the middle of summer, to which Eric replied:

It's a cold world outside, and I need something to keep me warm as I don't have a hottie like yourself by my side.

1337

i'll believe it

our definitions are the same

Nope.

If you identify the bug, you can understand it and explain it to AI. You write code, play test, and troubleshoot. Doesn't matter if it's you are the AI

The programmer is way more precise in his description of the problem since he is way more knowledgeable about the underlying behavior and concepts as well as the proper terminology. So this premise is already wrong.

when you declare and initialize a variable, do you know where it's stored

No because it's properly abstracted. Meanwhile you don't even know that the variable exists because you just copy pasted code. Again, using AI is not abstraction. And again, you don't even know what to ask the AI because you don't know what your code even does.

Fear feeds the derangement of the inner eye.

youtu.be/XWvUHeYf6WQ?si=STmcuX8w3Wtohfax

Just like, make game buddies.

howlongtobeat.com/game/34716
Main + Extras: 819 players polled. Average time: 98h 6m

Doing the math, I think that's about 411 in game days. Rounding up. There are 28 days in a month in stardew. So 411 / 28 = 14 months. 14 months in a year. So 14 / 4 = 3.6 years. I feel like my math is off. Because I would have guessed the average to be lower by about a year. But if I have the math correct, people are spending about 3.6 years in game. So the question becomes. How long would they spend brushing cows throughout their entire playthrough. For year 1, I'm going to assume only 4 animals. Year 2, 8 animals, and year 3 and beyond 12 animals.

Year 1: 1.5 seconds * 4 animals * 28 days * 4 months = 672. Or 11 minutes and 12 seconds
Year 2: 1.5 seconds * 8 animals * 28 days * 4 months = 1,344. Or 22 minutes and 24 seconds
Year 3: 1.5 seconds * 12 animals * 28 days * 4 months = 2,016. Or 33 minutes and 36 seconds.
Remainder: 1.5 seconds * 12 animals * 67 days = 1,206. Or 20 minutes and 6 seconds.
Sum: 672 + 1,344 + 2,016 + 1,206 = 5,238. Or 87 minutes and 38 seconds. Or 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 38 seconds.

How much is that time in proportion to the the total play time? 1.4666 / 98.1 = 0.014950. Or, rounded up and converted, 1.5%

1.5% of your total playtime is dedicated to brushing your animals. In a farming game, mind. The purpose for this game existing, is to take care of your farm. Which includes your animals. And you're upset, because 1.5% of it, is dedicated to... petting your animals. The thing that's SUPPOSED to be the joy of the game.

I feel like this thread has lost it's direction.

Uh, the game is about farming, not ranching.

just be a normalfag with a gf that pays for you to make vidya full time

Normalfag

Concerned Ape is a Anon Babbleirgin.

I DON'T CARE HE'S TOO HANDSOME

You are not only brushing the animals. There are 4 actions you have to calculate.
1. Talking with animal.
2. Brushing it
3. Milking it
4. Feeding the animals.
5. Changing tools (empty hand for talking, brush for brushing, milking tool for milking)

The fifth one seems trivial if one has not played the game but is the most annoying of all these actions. All of these actions take massively longer in Harvest Moon than in SD and SD has reduced brushing and talking to one action. Not to mention that the loading times are massive compared to SD, especially if you play a 3D HM. So the tedium is massively charged up for what essentially is the exact same gameplay.

And this doesn't take into account that SD offers lots of quality of life in endgame in the form of auto petter, auto collector, auto feeder.

So are all oldfags.

Nope

ESL?

The programmer is way more precise in his description of the problem since he is way more knowledgeable about the underlying behavior

I agree with this. It usually results in more accurate results from the AI. Although it's not a requirement to make games.

No because it's properly abstracted.

Please define "properly" in detail.

you don't even know that the variable exists

Most programmers don't even know a call stack exists. Also, do you write your own physics and navmesh algorithms? If not, do you understand them on a fundamental level or simply trust that your engines solution works?

tfw eternal newfag

at least now i know why i'm so ugly

Try to install VSCode C# SDK on linux

lmao it explodes

Learning to code is much harder than learning to draw. Drawing is basically just practice and practical application. Coding takes studying and most people just google what they are trying to make and copy and paste code other people wrote and I feel like that's much more time consuming.
Is there anything out there like a practice test format type of tutorial that you can follow step by step that really teaches you programing? And don't recommend me youtube videos because those are even harder for me to pay attention to.

I'm trying to learn to code on my own, and only consult ChatGPT when I get absolutely stuck. It still feels disgusting whenever I use it.

Already completely wrong.

No, I'm right. A cat always knows when it's time to eat. It will remind you if you forget, even though it can't read a clock. It will come looking for affection around the same time every day too. It will get zoomies around the same time every day. These behaviors are predictable.

What Harvest Moon are you talking about? You pulled almost all of that out of your ass.

Alright, I'll admit I might be misremembering the frolicking part. I can't find an example of it via google. But I swear I have a memory of cute digital cows frolicking in grass. Faded as the memory is, it might not be Harvest Moon. Or maybe it is, and I just can't pull up proof. In any case, I'm willing to concede that point. But everything else I said is true. The elevated mood can linger. I'm not sure what variable dictates this. Maybe it has something to do with feeding them cut farm grass, instead of store bought grass. Dunno.

Which game, you just say Harvest Moon but you are not saying in which game that specific feature is.

Harvest Moon DS. I posted a screenshot of the mini game. You waggle a cattail at the cat, in hopes it will come toward you. But as cats are prone to do, they get distracted and wander around. You have to wiggle it in such a way to keep their attention, drawing them in quickly.

but that doesn't change the point you made that the robotic chores like brushing and petting have meaning behind them when they really don't.

The joy is in the act itself. Calling it "robotic" only tells me that you simply don't like your animals. If you did, then you would get joy out of petting them. The fact that you shit on the touch screen mini game proves as much.

You never acknowledge how poor both games simulate this

I will not categorize them as on the same level. Harvest Moon's animal management can be improved upon. But my argument was that Stardew Valley failed to do it.

ESL?

I don't get why you would touch that wasp nest with the level of english you presented so far. Just leave it.

Please define "properly" in detail.

There is a direct interface between both systems. It's not a third party tool, it's a literal abstraction layer that was engineered upon the lower layer with the assurance of perfect compatibility and translation.

Also, do you write your own physics and navmesh algorithms

You are not arguing for an engine, but for being completely reliant on AI. You simply do not have access to the level of argument you are trying to make because you can't even beat the simplest of allegations. You don't even know what variables are declared in your code and yet you want to make a bypass argument for people not comprehending the engine. We are speaking about things that are world apart, you wouldn't even be able to fix the simplest of problems without AI.

None of those genres are dead. Steam is absolutely flooded with shovelware in all those genres.

Eric lucked out by living, developing, and releasing before the flood. He's basically already admitted his chocolate game is only going to be successful because of his brand recognition, because without it he'd be completely forgotten alongside the glut of shop management games on Steam.

I feel like I understand coding for the time a lesson takes but then completely forget it. feelsbadman

Realistically, how much money did he make?

At least with HM, you have a modicum of animal interaction. Which is better than the far less interaction that SV has. And again, if you don't value the interactions in HM, you don't have to do them. The reason you're so adamant about it being "shit", is for the fact that you want to min/max the game. And so you can't even imagine yourself skipping the interactions. You only imagine yourself in scenarios where you are maximizing profit, which means getting all the "chores" done.

This is why your mindset fails. You're trying to make yourself sound like the guy making the intelligent argument that leads to improvement. But you're actually making the soulless optimization argument that leads to catering to lazy people.

If you were to represent the level of animal interactions as a vector. And Harvest Moon is the normal. Then Stardew Valley scaled it backward, not forward. That's my point.

Eric, another oldfag engineer-turned-gamdev here. You inspired me to make a game (first-person imsim/RPG). Never gonna give up

I've had so much success learning art, music, and coding with Grok/DeepSeek/Chatgpt. As long as you don't use anything given by them then they can be pretty insightful to simply teach concepts. Plus, if you just ask it to take on the personality of some fictional character that you like, it gets really fun. I like learning code from Flatline Dixie from Neuromancer for example.

See that Eric? You've ruined yet another person's life. Another naive idiot is going to waste his life trying to follow your example. Hope you're proud of yourself.

pricklypeargames.itch.io/inochicules

No, I'm right. A cat always knows when it's time to eat. It will remind you if you forget, even though it can't read a clock. It will come looking for affection around the same time every day too. It will get zoomies around the same time every day. These behaviors are predictable.

These are habits and they have absolutely nothing to do with the entire argument because the animals in HM don't have habits. You can feed them in the morning, you can feed them at evening, they don't care as long as you feed them once a day then the code will say it is ok.

Calling it "robotic" only tells me that you simply don't like your animals

No need to hyper focus on that and try to build an emotional non argument. I described my reasoning which you are ignoring. And yet again you fail to describe why it's supposed to be meaningful to that everything takes longer in HM, because that's the only difference the game provides.

The fact that you shit on the touch screen mini game proves as much

The touchscreen minigame would be ok as a special interaction, not as a daily chore. That you fail to see this feels like you are pretending to be retarded.

But my argument was that Stardew Valley failed to do it

SD sucks at it but HM is just not much better. The animals are just way cuter because proper artists made them.

And so you can't even imagine yourself skipping the interactions

Sue me for liking my digital animals. If I only cared about profit I wouldn't have animals in either HM or stardew because crops bring in way more cash.

Then Stardew Valley scaled it backward, not forward

Play harvest moon a wonderful life and water your crops and then you will get my point. If you have to do the same things every day for hundreds of days then removing the tedium of those chores becomes extremely important.

Load times haven't been an issue in Harvest Moon since... I don't fucking know. I never played the PS1 games. Those are the only ones I can imagine having loading issues. I played the gamecube game, magical Melody, and that game has fast load times. But literally every other HM I've played has been on a cart. And if I played one today, it would be on my PC with SSD storage. So it would probably load super fast on PC too.

Talking to animals is part of the joy. Brushing animals is part of the joy. Milking animals is part of the joy. And yes, even feeding the animals can be part of the joy, if you go out of your way to feed them directly, instead of putting the feed in their trough.

Harvest Moon long ago figured out how to make cycling through equipment streamline. You hold a button, and then press another button, and it cycles through your equipment. Easy.

And this doesn't take into account that SD offers lots of quality of life in endgame in the form of auto petter, auto collector, auto feeder.

That's all soulless cookie clicker shit.

learn to code

That's a decade of math and programming if you start from zero and want to be at a level where you can solodev a working prototype.

learn to draw

Doesn't take as long but less applicable because what you actually need to know is modeling/rigging/animating and all those things add up to another 10 years.

learn to make music

You're 20 years in the hole already just ask someone else to do it

make a game

You will be 50, perhaps even older, because you also have to design an entire game from ground up.

make two

You will have died from old age. Solodev is only good for pixelshit shovelware.

about tree fiddy

Load times haven't been an issue in Harvest Moon since... I don't fucking know

Why are you trying to attack that point then... Loading times are super relevant in HM games. The worst ones are in the Wii games. And no, it's slow on emulators as well.

Harvest Moon long ago figured out how to make cycling through equipment streamline

The best games are the old ones and they have problems with switching equipment. It takes too long and is just clunky and you have too few slots.

That's all soulless cookie clicker shit.

Ironically HM games have the most soulless feature with the harvest sprites doing slave labor for you. You literally can stop playing the game since they just do everything for you.

direct interface

define direct interface. If I ask Claude to write a function to print "hello world" and it successfully compiles and prints, is this not a direct interface? There is a direct input and output.

It's not a third party tool

Define third-party. You have many options for C compilers that aren't associated with hardware manufacturers. Are these third-party?

You are not arguing for an engine

we're talking purely abstractions here. You didn't answer my question. Do you write your own navmesh solutions? If not, do you trust your game engine to do this for you? For example, wouldn't it be more useful if you understand the specifics of the algorithm to troubleshoot NPC pathing issues in a game?

You don't even know what variables are declared in your code

Does it matter if the gameplay outcome works and is correct?

that 50 year old game dev who has a life of experience behind him

he'd make kino

That´s the plan but boy it takes time... a lot of time.

naive idiot

not gonna give up

i once saw someone publish a quick game they made "vibecoding" with claude and the stupid AI tied the game physics to the fps. Didn't they figure out not to do that shit in the early 2000s?

Play harvest moon a wonderful life and water your crops and then you will get my point

I have. And I hated watering twice a day. I tried it for a while, then simply stopped doing it, because it wasn't fun. You don't *have* to water twice a day. You just do it, because it's optimal. I didn't play much of that game anyway, because it's all around lacking content, and slow as shit.
But the false equivalence is clear. You just compared a twice daily chore to a once daily chore. Cmon...

If I only cared about profit I wouldn't have animals in either HM or stardew because crops bring in way more cash.

You might care to have a fully fledged farm. So you get the animals out of a sort of collectors completion kind of thing.

SD sucks at it but HM is just not much better.

Harvest Moon is selling you the farm experience. You can dislike it if you want. But that's what it's selling you. Stardew Valley is selling you the cookie clicker experience. You can hold all the "quality of life" features up to acclaim, but it's still just cookie clicker under the hood.

The fact that you shit on the touch screen mini game proves as much

The touchscreen minigame would be ok as a special interaction, not as a daily chore.
You don't have to do it daily. That you fail to see this feels like you are pretending to be retarded.

No need to hyper focus on that and try to build an emotional non argument.

You're trying to remove the emotion by calling it "robotic". Your reasoning is shit. That because the video game doesn't simulate emotions to a high enough degree, it is therefore not simulating emotions at all?

These are habits and they have absolutely nothing to do with the entire argument because the animals in HM don't have habits.

The argument was about finding predictability in relationships. Which you claimed there are none. I answered with anecdotes that illustrate there is predictability.

I cant make game. What if I make it and I end up being the next yiik

define direct interface

I'm speaking about an interface, as in computer interface. Not the mere word interface, god you are fucking stupid as fuck if you don't even know what an interface is. Ask AI what an interface is if you want to know.

If I ask Claude to write a function to print "hello world" and it successfully compiles and prints, is this not a direct interface

Holy fucking retard.

Define third-party

Oh my god, I'm speaking with an absolute retard that doesn't know the most basic of terminology. This is the AI generation.

You have many options for C compilers that aren't associated with hardware manufacturers. Are these third-party

What the fuck is even this sentence?

Do you write your own navmesh solutions? If not, do you trust your game engine to do this for you?

If the engine offers satisfying results I trust it, if not then I do it myself. A choice that someone completely reliant on AI is not given.

Does it matter if the gameplay outcome works and is correct?

No, but it matters when something breaks which will be all the time in game dev.

Monogame is pretty comfy bros

But the false equivalence is clear. You just compared a twice daily chore to a once daily chore. Cmon...

I didn't name the chore because of that. I named it because if you water your crops in that game at all then this is the only thing you are going to do. It takes your entire day just watering them once, even if you have only half your field full with crops. This is what I mean, SD removed this kind of tedium because there is enough content. You do the chores, you have the entire rest of the day to do cool things.

You might care to have a fully fledged farm. So you get the animals out of a sort of collectors completion kind of thing.

So? A farm with animals is just really cool.

Harvest Moon is selling you the farm experience. You can dislike it if you want. But that's what it's selling you. Stardew Valley is selling you the cookie clicker experience

Still didn't explain why this is the case. You can't even change anything on your farm in HM games while you can fully customize everything in Stardew. The gameplay has much more substance.

You don't have to do it daily

So you don't like your animals to brush them every day? Shows what a human you really are. Bet you even have favorites that you brush and others are treated with cruelty.

That because the video game doesn't simulate emotions to a high enough degree, it is therefore not simulating emotions at all?

That's what you are arguing for stardew though.

The argument was about finding predictability in relationships. Which you claimed there are none. I answered with anecdotes that illustrate there is predictability.

There is no 100% predictability ever in real life, which I argued for Harvest Moon. That you try to simplify real life while you are arguing on an internet forum at the same time is fucking absurd.

How does it compare to Godot?

>Load times haven't been an issue in Harvest Moon since... I don't fucking know

Why are you trying to attack that point then... Loading times are super relevant in HM games. The worst ones are in the Wii games. And no, it's slow on emulators as well.

Again, most of the HM games are on cart. So this point is moot. Add to that the fact loading only matters when you're transitioning from outside to inside. Unless you're going inside per animal, this argument makes no fucking sense. You have to go inside the barn to take care of them anyway.

The best games are the old ones and they have problems with switching equipment.

That's not even true. Equipment switching was figured out by friends of mineral town. Item pulling was figured out by Harvest Moon 64. And the latter games are actually better. Speaking form experience: Magical Melody and Sunshine Islands. They're a lot like Friends of Mineral Town with more features and improved UI. I've heard great things about animal parade. Though I've never played it myself. Also The Tale of Two Towns. I'm just mentioning them in case anyone else wants to chime in and vouch for them.

Ironically HM games have the most soulless feature with the harvest sprites doing slave labor for you.

The investment required to get those little fuckers to work is very high. And even when they do begin working, they aren't perfect. You have to get a lot of them to make it all work. By that point in the game, you've probably already seen all the content the game has to offer.

make two

You first, Eric

how do you do that exactly?

Again, most of the HM games are on cart

It doesn't matter, my point still holds water regardless which HM you mean because SD is significantly faster than all of them.

this argument makes no fucking sense. You have to go inside the barn to take care of them anyway

Yes, one loading time to go inside the barn, one to go outside.

Equipment switching was figured out by friends of mineral town

Equipment switching was figured out by Stardew Valley. Just direct switch with zero delay with a proper bag where the tools don't remove half the inventory space.

Tale of Two Towns

Objectively the best HM game.

The investment required to get those little fuckers to work is very high

No it's not. They like very mundane items.

. By that point in the game, you've probably already seen all the content the game has to offer

95% of the content is doing chores. When the harvest sprites take over there is literally zero gameplay left except maybe going into the shitty ass mine. In Stardew Valley there is plenty of content even if you automate a good chunk of your farm.

Eric already had a mobile game released before SDV. You also now realize this is the same pear as the ice statue in the ice festival.

good luck on your gamedev journey bro. Fwiw I agree with you. Sometimes it's good to get a new perspective and try new things. Maybe you'll find some use for AI in the future

How does it compare to Godot?

It's a framework rather than an engine. It takes a bit work to get up and going, but I like that any bugs are mine and not tied to the engine.
monogame.net/showcase/

Financially, it makes more sense for him to keep making updates for SV instead of developing a new game. It gets massive player bumps every update.

Except I literally not once argued against AI. I just stated that it's a very sensible choice to learn basic programming and that fully relying on AI will only bring misery.

Eat shit and die loser lmaoing at ur life XDDd

Are we pretending Haunted Chocolatier is not going to sell 10 million copies by default?

thanks m8

It takes your entire day just watering them once, even if you have only half your field full with crops.

Well the false equivalence here is clear too. If you're efficient, you can get your animals done in about a minute or two. It doesn't take up your whole day. But on top of that, Harvest Moon pauses time while you're indoors, enabling you to take care of the animals at your leisure. If they're outside, you save time by not having to feed them. The net time loss is negligible.

So? A farm with animals is just really cool.

Until you have to interact with them. Then you're annoyed. You don't really like them.

Still didn't explain why this is the case.

Again, look at it as a vector. A trajectory. HM gave you animal petting. You can say it wasn't very advanced if you want. But it was there. The game allowed you to talk to the animals. You can say it wasn't very flowery dialogue, but it was there. HM gave you mini games with your pets. You can ignore them, but they were there. What did SV do? Remove, remove, remove.

You can't even change anything on your farm in HM games

That depends on the game. In Magical melody you could buy various plots of land throughout the town, and then move your home and/or barn to each one separately. fogu.com/hm/magical_melody/farmlocations.php

So you don't like your animals to brush them every day?

A full blown mini game? I'm not doing that for every animal. I'm going to pick my favorites, and do it for them, and move on. Or I'm just going to do it as many times as I can until I'm bored, and move on.
Do you think you're better because you can 1-frame click through all your animals in SV? That's fucking lame. The game should at least have the OPTION for petting.

There is no 100% predictability ever in real life, which I argued for Harvest Moon

True, and yet, there is still predictability. So much so, that a lot of people end relationships out of pure boredom. They get into familiar routines.

Okay, to the actual devs, explain how would you use sine wave functions?

There's no guarantee that will be the case. Plenty of successful devs have been one-hit wonders (see Notch). A game being successful requires making the right product at the right time for the right people. Several people tried making Recettear-likes, and none have done very well.

My game development is going so well bros
This time I'll finish something for sure

Well the false equivalence here is clear too

No, because you don't get the point I'm trying to make.

Until you have to interact with them. Then you're annoyed. You don't really like them.

I interact with them, just quicker.

You can say it wasn't very advanced if you want. But it was there

It just wasn't. It's exactly the same just longer with more tedium. Also why did HM never again do the petting minigame if it was so good? They removed it too, because it sucked donkey ass.

That depends on the game. In Magical melody you could buy various plots of land throughout the town

They all suck compared to SD in that regard, just be honest just once in your life. SD completely revolutionized customizing your farm. HM games feel like absolute trash now since you can't do anything but static upgrades.

A full blown mini game?

That was only there for one HM game, yet you pretend the entire HM series has soul because of that one minigame in one game. Fuck off, you are disingenuous as fuck.

True, and yet, there is still predictability.

Yeah but there is still unpredictability as well, which makes it more fun. In HM there is only 100% predictability.

There's no guarantee that will be the case. Plenty of successful devs have been one-hit wonders (see Notch)

Haunted Chocolatier is very similar to SD though, not like notch with his autism simulator game. At least it targets the exact same player base.

That's a decade of math and programming if you start from zero and want to be at a level where you can solodev a working prototype.

I made a platformer in python after taking a three month highschool course, and half the class had more impressive final projects than I did
Basic programming is not that hard to learn. You learn the programming and math as you go, you just have to be good at identifying specific things you want to happen and spend some time researching the ideas necessary to implement that

basic sine and cosine are used all the time for floating objects and platforms.

It doesn't matter, my point still holds water regardless which HM you mean because SD is significantly faster than all of them.

No, genius. Cart loading is instant. SV is not faster than a cart based HM game.

Yes, one loading time to go inside the barn, one to go outside.

So...? You're suggesting that they should remove animal interactions, because load times from old 90s disc systems at to the overall time? That makes no sense. Loading hasn't been a problem since forever ago... And the wii apparently. But I heard the wii version of magical melody is actually more bugged than the GameCube version, as well as lacking features. So I'm going to assume the other wii games suffered similar technical issued during that time.

Equipment switching was figured out by Stardew Valley. Just direct switch with zero delay with a proper bag where the tools don't remove half the inventory space.

It's the same as Harvest Moon. I don't know what you mean. You still have to go into the menu to switch. Or alternatively cycle to switch. And they still take up inventory space. When you start the game, your tools take up 40% of your inventory space.

No it's not. They like very mundane items.

In the game I'm familiar with, Friends of Mineral Town. These items are seasonal. So you might have them for a while, but then they're gone until next year. While you're trying to do everything else on your farm, you're not likely going to get these guy's items very frequently. Hell, you might not even see the benefit of entertaining the elves for some time. So you'll probably start late, and then get their affection up sporadically, taking idk, a year or two, before they're friendly enough to be effective. And you certainly won't get them all at once. You'll have 1 guy, then two guys, then three... it takes time to get to the point where you can rely on them.

google what they are trying to make and copy and paste code other people wrote

Don't do this. The right way to learn is to simplify until you're comfortable that you mostly understand everything (this means not using a game engine, they're too big to understand initially, and also scoping really small, like tictactoe small). Then you need to have the resolve to try, really try, to figure out all your puzzles without help. Once you're satisfied that you've really tried and can't make progress without help, you then research a little get unstuck and try again.
The problem is that most people are obsessed with results and don't care about understanding. What you should be is motivated to expand your understanding by striving for a specific attainable result. If you do this then you'll learn much faster (but you'll get results much slower, at least at first)

I use trig whenever I'm dealing with angles in a way that can't be immediately solved using dot products

Don't tell this nigga about quantum physics

Cart loading is instant.

Not really, it's still reliant on the processor. SD is a sprite based game running on pretty hefty hardware. Of course it's going to be faster, there is literally no argument there.

So...? You're suggesting that they should remove animal interactions, because load times from old 90s disc systems at to the overall time?

No, I'm suggesting Stardew Valley has far less tedium.

And they still take up inventory space. When you start the game, your tools take up 40% of your inventory space

They are taking 5 out of 36 spaces, you even posted the screenshot... how can someone be like that. Meanwhile friends of mineral town.

In the game I'm familiar with, Friends of Mineral Town. These items are seasonal.

Not really. They like different things. Some like things like eggs or chocolate that is available all year. Just stop coping already, HM has more automation than SD despite having less gameplay.

Also why did HM never again do the petting minigame if it was so good?

It was in latter games. Here it is in Sunshine Islands

just be honest just once in your life

No, you're right. SV did a better job at farm customization. This is a topic I didn't really want to get into, because if I say what I think about it, you'll probably blow your top. And it's besides the point. How much does farm customization really contribute to the feeling of living a rural life? Like you typically don't get to move your structures around, once they've been built. It takes an incredible amount of effort. For those who do move structures around: most people just demolish and rebuild anew somewhere else. But for most people, their structures stay where they are their whole lives. The idea that you can freely move things around is neat. But it's gamey. And it's gamey in that way where it's not earned either. When you can customize too freely, then it cheapens the experience. In a similar way that inputting an infinite money cheat feels cheap.

The cosmetic customization make more sense. But even HM started improving on that. Did you know that in Magical Melody, you could choose cosmetics for your home? The walls and floors, and you could move the furniture around and buy furniture. It was more than just a "static upgrade" like you claim.

Yes, SV did it better. But I expect it too! SV came out years after MM. It SHOULD be better. That's what's frustrating about the animals. That years later, the animals are WORSE.

because of that one minigame in one game.

Petting mini game
milking mini game
sheering mini game
cattail mini game
frisby mini game
horse sled mini game

Yeah but there is still unpredictability as well, which makes it more fun.

Regardless, there is predictability. But I got a "yeah" out of you, so I'll count that as a win. Before you didn't even acknowledge an ounce of predictability. I've moved you to acknowledging less than 100%.

Posting this picture. Because I don't think you understand what I meant by moving your structures. Look at that. You could select left or right orientation, and it was all gridded, so you can adjust by tile.

You can play SD like you want though. No one forces you to move your barns around. Even if you just do realistic customization like just placing a few chests and tools around you can see the benefit of the system.

But I expect it too! SV came out years after MM. It SHOULD be better

Do you realize that Story of Seasons Pioneers of Olive Town was a total trash game? And it came out after SD. Also all the later SoS games removed the minigames from the animals. And SD had no obligation including that shit but SoS literally removed features like you claim for SD despite SD being its own thing.

Cris's games have SOUL and i trust him not to put pp nabbers in his game like a certain other dev.

Not really, it's still reliant on the processor. SD is a sprite based game running on pretty hefty hardware. Of course it's going to be faster, there is literally no argument there.

You're counting fractions of a second. Imperceptible lengths of time. Just drop this load time argument. We both know it's silly.

They are taking 5 out of 36 spaces, you even posted the screenshot

The middle and bottom row are greyed out, because you need to buy inventory upgrades to unlock them.

Meanwhile friends of mineral town.

So in fact, tools and items don't share a space. Huh. Neat. I guess I forgot that.

Some like things like eggs or chocolate that is available all year.

So you have to find what they like, just like any other character in the game. And you might not always have what they want. And even if you do, it still takes time to get their affection levels up. And then when they work, they will still need assistance, before they're good enough to handle the task on their own: gamefaqs.gamespot.com/gba/589702-harvest-moon-friends-of-mineral-town/faqs/33296

You will see the head shot of each of them, a line of hearts. And the last thing you will see are three little bars, one with a watering can, one with a turnip, and one with a brush. Each of those are the "skill" meter. The fuller they are the better they will be at that thing.

The guide also says that you need a lot of guys for harvesting, as it's the hardest task for them. And that you *need* them if you have a full plantation of crops, and want to get it all in one day with your help.
The guide also says that the need help with watering before their skill gets up to handle it all on their own.
And that even though they don't require help with animals, they still won't use the "makers" to make the milk and wool into anything. So you have to do that yourself.

big thing to remember is that you cannot ever make them work two days in a row, this will over worked them and make them sad

You can play SD like you want though. No one forces you to move your barns around. Even if you just do realistic customization like just placing a few chests and tools around you can see the benefit of the system.

Right. Right. And so I simply don't customize my structures very much. I try not to. Unless they're in the way of something major. I try to make my farm sprawl out naturally. With some planning ahead of course.

But same could be said about the animal mini games. No one forces you to play the mini games. You can just not do them.

Do you realize that Story of Seasons Pioneers of Olive Town was a total trash game?

No, I wasn't aware. I haven't played the games since they lost their branding. I've glanced at the SoS games, and they just don't look all too appealing to me. There's something "off" about them.

And it came out after SD. Also all the later SoS games removed the minigames from the animals.

Maybe they saw the success of SV and decided they could be more successful if they removed features too. Or maybe the company just lost talented passionate developers. dunno.

SD had no obligation including that shit

I can think of other ways of improving animal interactions. Can't you?
Like, for example, you don't necessarily need a whole mini game for the cows. You can just make make a petting animation, and then allow the player to move around while doing this petting motion, so as to simulate petting different parts of the animal. This would be an immediate and fun action that players will actually enjoy performing. You can enhance this by giving every animal a different spot they like to be pet. When you reach that spot, you get the heart. So even if you begin the pet animation in the wrong spot, you can still swivel around and find the good spot. And because every animal has a different spot, it gives them just that extra ounce of personality.
Or you can be a soulless dev, and just remove petting altogether.

I want to pet that cow. I never played either game but I love that cow model.

My bf and I are starting soon once we buy our house and we're so fucking stoked
We have such a good idea we think people will love

Cool

Tfw project artist bugs out due to the very slight issue of being relied on for art assets. God fucking damn it man. This hurts. I'm so angry.

Make a game just for fun on itch.io with an artist friend last year, a fangame based on an obscure game series

Game does super well for some reason, gets 10k plays in a couple of months despite no advertising whatsoever and being based on a game that probably doesn't even have 1000 downloads to begin with

Decide to make it a "Real" game by making it much more polished and feature complete, with plans to sell it on Steam as a small indie game

Pretty sure this game has good potential to sell really well considering all the factors I've researched

Work my ass off every day making tons of features for the game, now the game is basically completely coded

However my artist friend hasn't drawn anything, whenever I ask he just says he'll get to it

Finally today he tells me that he's too anxious to draw art for a game that will be sold, despite the fact that I've already paid him for it and all I was asking for was basically just the same thing but not copyright infringement

Now I have a game that is basically 100% coded but has no art

What the fuck do I do in this situation, and before you ask, no I can't draw it myself. A big part of the appeal was supposed to be the art and visual aspect of the game The whole design of the game revolves around a girl with big boobs, so I need a competent artist.

Ha. Timely post. That's fucked buddy.

I was about to say, are you me or something.
I guess it's nice to know that misery has company, but I got no advice for you friend. I just hope you can find a solution too.

he's just like me fr

I can't play beyond marrying jas. Once marriage hits I restart. 1.7 for better marriage life and children that aren't glorified pets when, ape?

Ask on /agdg/. They got plenty of artists.

Also, link the example game. If you want to get collab partners you need to attract them with an interesting project.

Drawing is essential to any kind of visual medium. How are you gonna design things to make 3D models of if you don't know how to draw?

Tell your friend to get his shit together. It's not like he's drawing it live on stream
Also he can use a new alias or screenname if he's worried about any association
Artists are all flakes in one way or another. One of the things with them is learning to tard wrangle them.

What race is this, grok?

work warehouse job

computer nerds: "Learn to code! LeArN tO cOdE!! XD"

AI comes along

"We'll be out of a job! How can you be so heartless!"

mfw

Barone

med king

no that would be your post. i did not say stardew isnt good. i said his success, which was abnormal, was not because of SD's quality. Comparitively nobody would have given a shit if there were two or three competing franchises in that genre making banger after banger for the previous 15 years. Being a huge success like that necessarily requires an available niche, either a pre-existing one that is underserved or an entirely new one you haven't created yet. you will never "make it," which means retiring early and comfortably, unless you conform to the parameters of the market you are selling to. anything else is cope by a manchild. make your tired slop if you want to, but you will never get big from it.

I gave up on that years ago. I need a job

Because most 3d modelers are just monkeys tracing their reference. Just take a look at this thread.

The right way to learn is to simplify until you're comfortable that you mostly understand everything (this means not using a game engine, they're too big to understand initially, and also scoping really small, like tictactoe small).

How the fuck do you start then? Pick a programing language and just take online tutorials on it?

that's a whole lot of excuses buddy

stolen game/concept

add generic reddit pixel art

retards make you a multi-millionaire because..

Anon Babble/reddit applauds

the stereotype of your average cs major only choosing his major because he wants to "make game"

Do you realize that Story of Seasons Pioneers of Olive Town was a total trash game?

unrelated but I like that that game's acronym spells SoS PoOT