This douchebag is such a fucking retard. Imagine being so far up your own crusty asshole that you ruin a beloved character on purpose to be "subversive".
This douchebag is such a fucking retard...
After hearing his comments about "ellie didn't want to kill anyone but abby" he's just terrible at storytelling.
Normal person
Sees shit on the floor, avoids it
You
Sees shit on the floor, eats it and tells everybody about it
Has recently admitted that he would do the same things Joel of it were for his daughter sake
Even cuckmann realized his writing it's shit lmao
it's called being a kike
Joel and kratos were shit characters on their first games and on their latest games
He's just Jewish
Its more like stepping in shit and complaining about it so people know to avoid it.
Sadly he's far from being alone on that regard
He's a fool for not realizing you needed one more full game with Ellie and Joel together, bonding/fighting/learning about each other, in order to truly sell Joel dying being a philosophical life lesson. Ellie losing Joel after a singular game signaled to the players that Druckman didn't care about Joel as a character- only as a prop to get Ellie to break. You also needed a second game to introduce the idea of Abby and her dad before she took revenge. Use the journey between her father and her to parallel Ellie and Joel, to show how they believed their own struggle was more moral than what Joel and Ellie did.
It's just so clear Druckman had like half the story conceptualized when TLOU 1 became a mega-hit and had no idea how to capitalize on that from a narrative sense. Unreal how he thought the best move was to fully handicap his chance at a full three act series.
Was Joel really anyone's 'beloved character'? He was a generic white simp raising another man's child, a common archetype of the past 20 years
Cuckmann
I think the message is clear after thousands of threads on his shitty movie games.
Never thought about it that way...you are one hundred percent correct. Nobody would believe that either Ellie or Joel were safe from being killed off in a series of games. But they introduce them in game 1 and kill Joel off early in game 2. They absolutely needed another game to build the relationship. I mean I could stomach being killed off at the end of the second game.
is not about being subversive is about cleaning the dirty papers of the jews "cycle violence is bad btw... it was our AI called gospel who told us to bomb children, im a poor innocent jew"
Antifa is awesome dummy.
beloved character
What the fuck are you talking about? He's not Crash Bandicoot. Everyone is being gaslit that joel was a beloved character. If you truly love Joel make a case for him, because I don't see it. He's an incredibly generic hard as nails no nonsense gruff grisly man in a cliche poorly executed plot where he has his heart melted by an annoying brat for some reason (because the plot demanded it). The intro with Joel was strong and you feel for him because of the excellent cinematic execution of the scene where he loses his daughter, but after that Joel is basically a serial killer scumbag for the rest of the game with a few forced endearing moments with Ellie. When he completely 180's at the end of the game to be a surrogate father for Ellie, it felt completely out of character because the game didn't have enough moments in it to show that Joel had warmed up to Ellie sufficiently enough to warrant a complete break in his character. When he turns to Ellie at the end of the game to accept her as his daughter it came across like a horror movie where an insane person finally snapped. If that was the intention it's genius, but most of the media surrounding this game assumes they are a father daughter relationship, not a delusional person who believes Ellie is his daughter like the game portrayed. Most of the bonding between characters was done off screen when Ellie is nursing Joel back to health but we just have to assume that they developed a relationship beyond a sarcastic punk that pesters and endangers the life of a hardened survivor. This is an engineered controversy, nobody gave a fuck about Joel. Nobody who played through last of us played through the second game when they found out that there were no game-play improvements from the first and the game was focusing on expanding the poorly told yet beautifully cinematic story from the first game that had already been ruined by DLC.
When he completely 180's at the end of the game to be a surrogate father for Ellie, it felt completely out of character because the game didn't have enough moments in it to show that Joel had warmed up to Ellie sufficiently enough to warrant a complete break in his character.
I was really trying to hear you out anon, but you might just be retarded
Make a case for it then, because from where I'm standing the few comedic moments of Ellie cracking wise would not be enough to undo years of traumatic conditioning that Joel had gone through in order to survive in the hell world that was portrayed. Like I said, the game leaves you to assume that they developed a relationship off screen because of how Joel has softened to her in his interactions after the winter where he's recovering but because it wasn't shown and given enough time I got whiplash when suddenly a guy who's basically Jeffry Dahmer at this point suddenly decides to become human again for quirky snowflake little girl.
just jewish things
Make a case for it
No, I don’t like the game and won’t defend it, your lack of reading comprehension is your own problem.
Jews can't help themselves, I think it's safe to say after at least 2000 years that history always repeats itself regardless of the culture that accepts them.
"Subverting expectations" aka fucking with people by writing retarded shit isn't even a subversion anymore
You now have people that can't accept that a story is played straight because they are expecting that everything is fake to build up to the key moment where they get to basedface at the screen
It's not a bad game. I don't dislike it. As far as gameplay goes it's fairly mediocre but it does have excellent cinematography and environmental design. There are a lot of stand out moments that would make for great zombie movie scenes. My argument is that the story was poorly developed, the characterization is poor, it's cliche, trope ridden and the controversy surrounding Joel being ruined as a character is completely manufactured. He wasn't a great character to begin with. Tell me what about his character is endearing. Druckmann did nothing wrong. You can't ruin a character that was poor to begin with, but baiting a controversy by gaslighting the media into believing people were attached to this character is a genius, albeit deceptive, play.
where the fuck do you retards come from that like the last of us and think it's a good story or game
why are you here instead of reddit, where they love awardbait garbage with no message other than "i have a child and can only write the exact same fucking story about a single father and child now"
The point is not whether he is a good character or not. The point is that people saw his act as heroic (saving his daughter's life instead of letting her be mutilated in a medical experiment), but the Jewish writer decided that the whole world was wrong, and that allowing our daughters to be sacrificed in the supposed name of the common good (or according to the talmud, allowing the gentiles to be killed to benefit the superior jewish master) is actually the ethical thing to do, and he decided to show this by killing the "hero" in a humiliating way at the hands of a quasi-transsexual lesbian.
It's a piece of writing full of resentment by a person who grew up in the worst supremacist culture humanity has ever seen, a culture that is so despicable that it has resulted in its followers being persecuted for millennia.
doesn't the game end with a sympathetic scene of Joel saying he'd do it all over again or am I misremembering
retcons your beloved game and gaslights you
what the FUCK is this guys problems?
You’re correct that Joel is a bad character and the game is poorly written but if you really don’t see the million ways the game beats you over the head with the idea that he’s projecting onto Ellie, I think that’s a fault of yours. The issue isn’t that the game didn’t do enough, it does too much, it treats its audience like they’re braindead.
The point is that people saw his act as heroic
Murdering an entire hospital full of the only people working towards a cure for the cordyceps virus is not heroic. It's incredibly self serving. He has a late and selfish realization (that was a break of character) that he wants to save his precious daughterfu at the expense of the future of humanity. Joel is not a Hero, if anything he's a selfish psychopath wanting to larp as daddy but that doesn't seem to be what most people gleaned from the ending.
but the Jewish writer
I don't see how his religion is relevant, how does his religion play into criticizing his work? I didn't play the second game so I really don't know anything about his prowess as a writer but seeing as he could turn the non-story from the first game into an industry wide controversy I'm impressed by his writing ability having never read a single thing he's written.
and that allowing our daughters to be sacrificed in the supposed name of the common good
You'd have a point there, human sacrifice is unethical, but you're filling in the blanks for a story that was never shown or told, and assuming the writers intent and ignoring that this is what ellie consented to herself. Why is Ellie Joel's daughter now? Because he human trafficked her across the continent and she grew on him? Are people really so blinded by cute little girls that they missed the entire context of the situation? She's literally his prisoner and he's human trafficking her to an organization trying to find a cure and he has a last second change of heart (which was unearned) and murders everyone going against Ellie's wishes to kidnap her and have her be his daughter.
It's a piece of writing full of resentment
If that's the case then he's attacking a strawman because last of us isn't good storytelling and neither he nor you played the first game.
food analogy
The show is better than the game.
NEXT GUY!
saves ellie from getting butchered by an animal veterinarian for no reason
takes down a crazy terrorist organization and stops them from further experimenting on people and bombing and killing civilians
Joel was most definitely a hero in the first game
Imagine being so far up your own crusty asshole that you ruin a beloved character on purpose to be "subversive".
No no anon see, they were actually saying "lunch break, guys!" And uh... modern cameras don't make flashes any more tee-hee silly :)
I'll never forget the fucking defense force of roaches that crawled out of the woodworks to defend that self absorbed cunt.
Joel was already bonding with Ellie and "acting out of character" way before the firefly hospital, if you look at Joel's story as a whole right from the prologue to the ending you can see a very compelling arc and compelling reasons why he would save her. And the feelings are mutual for Ellie she lashes out in pain at his death leaving a path of corpses, just like him. General audiences absolutely fell for the Joel/Ellie dynamic your line of thinking isn't exactly popular.
the sole goal of the tiny hat tribe is to make money
subverting beloved things causes outrage which then drives sales through the rood
He's just following his programming and doing an excellent job at it. Because those games made a fuckton of money and got him signed up with HBO which is the dream of every single western game developer.
only brainless npc’s played anything this guy made
the fact he doubled down and did the same thing with the show truly boggles my mind. staggering levels of hubris to sink the multi-million dollar Titanic twice on the same iceberg.
that he’s projecting onto Ellie
That's something I mentioned here:
It seems to me as if Joel is delusional in the first game but general audiences seemed to go towards that they grew on each-other and had a familial bond.
because from where I'm standing the few comedic moments of Ellie cracking wise would not be enough to undo years of traumatic conditioning that Joel had gone through in order to survive in the hell world that was portrayed. Like I said, the game leaves you to assume that they developed a relationship off screen because of how Joel has softened to her in his interactions after the winter where he's recovering but because it wasn't shown and given enough time I got whiplash when suddenly a guy who's basically Jeffry Dahmer at this point suddenly decides to become human again for quirky snowflake little girl.
your line of thinking isn't exactly popular.
Yeah I think most people just have that daddy instinct and miss the nuances of the story because all they can think about is protecting their daughterfu, but if you look at it without the desire to patronize women it's a different beast.
Tell me what about his character is endearing.
The relationship and growth between him and ellie in the first game was handled brilliantly.
Bad person? Yeah maybe but him and ellie were both excellently written, for a video game.
The relationship and growth between him and ellie in the first game was handled brilliantly.
Completely disagree, if they were going for a familial bond it wasn't given enough screentime to develop beyond people filling in the blanks themselves and seeing something that wasn't there.
This series is targeted towards the average normal PlayStation fanbase. AKA retards. Doesn’t take much to trigger people like that emotionally which is why killing Joel off like that worked. Same series that wanted you to feel deeply emotionally attached to his daughter that you only knew for like 20 mins.
This douchebag is such a fucking retard.
uncharted 4 should have told you that eons ago
Someone post the webm of him trying to pose for photoshoots but no one took pictures
the only people working towards a cure for the cordyceps virus
Forced human experimentation is not an acceptable research method and they deserved to die for their atrocities.
Joel wasn't Jeffry Dahmer, he was just a survivor. The game can't show you every second of their journey considering they travel all across the country, but every segment did develop their relationship's trajectory through a ton of interaction and by the end of the game everyone absolutely bought it and it felt earned. they waited until appropriate moments in the narrative for milestones like Joel doesn't talk about Sarah until the final act
You guys are such gay ass narcissists lmao
OH NO NONO HONEY, DON'T PLAY THAT SHOW, I SAW A THREAD ON Anon Babble ABOUT HOW IT'S BAD
get a grip
Retard
You mean kike, it was all intentional. Kikes destroy everything
Forced human experimentation
Except Ellie consented so it's not really forced, you could argue that she was not made aware of the gravity of the situation because it might involve her death. A better argument would be that the fireflies manufactured consent by telling Ellie she would be contributing to a cure without telling her that she would most likely die, they'd done this experiment before and gained nothing from it and that the fireflies weren't as competent as their public image lead people to believe. Would Ellie have consented to sacrificing herself for the greater good if she knew that the people she was sacrificing herself were larping? Does Joel Know that the Fireflies are larpers? The players can possibly know if they read the in game logs, but we can't assume the characters had access to any of this information and you can play without reading the memos left on the floor.
Joel wasn't Jeffry Dahmer,
Jeffrey Dahmer only killed 17 people. Joel killed way more over the course of the game. You're experiencing ludonarritive dissonance. Joel is a literal serial killer and a human trafficker as well as many other horrible things about him being implied because he's a criminal smuggler after the intro. I would argue that the game didn't show enough to transition Joel from Jeffrey Dahmer/Al Capone to loving daddy over the course of the time he spent human trafficking an annoying little punk brat on a happy road trip where most of the time was spent with her almost getting him killed, not to mention all the times her character model breaks your immersion in gameplay by running full speed into a clicker.
Joel had to die so based aryan queen Abby could crush semitic skulls
How did a simplistic in your face story like TLOU get so regarded as a masterpiece narrative?
I forgot about that tubby little bitch.
I guess "forced" isn't the right word, but they're still fucking butchers that deserved what they got. Joel did the right thing by saving Ellie, and he did nothing wrong in stopping those cunts from murdering more people in senseless experiments.
Because it has so many layers of complexity, on the surface it's a story about a daddy and daughter bonding on a road trip but when you dig a little deeper it's about an insane serial killer human trafficker projecting his desire to have his long lost daughter back onto a person who isn't like her at all, but happens to be the same age as his dead daughter and ends up forcing this new "daughter" into a daddy daughter relationship because she's afraid he will kill her after she witnessed him murdering several hundreds of people. (although the latter is giving the writers too much credit because I would assume their intent was the former.)
They're still fucking butchers
Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are incompetent idealists who believe that they can truly save the world but don't have the skills to do it or the self awareness to realize they don't have the capicity. In that context Joel murdered a whole building full of well meaning, but dangerously incompetent retards.
How did a simplistic in your face story like TLOU get so regarded as a masterpiece narrative?
Same as every 'masterpiece,' it's simply marketed as such, and people believe it.
This is some next level b8
Yeah, the only time this is true is when Ellie gets to the aquarium and runs into Owen and whatever the pregnant cunt's name is. I just replayed this on PC for the first time since the PS4 launch, it's funny to me that I still can't remember her name.
it's a story about a daddy and daughter bonding on a road trip but when you dig a little deeper it's about an insane serial killer human trafficker projecting his desire to have his long lost daughter back onto a person who isn't like her at all, but happens to be the same age as his dead daughter and ends up forcing this new "daughter" into a daddy daughter relationship because she's afraid he will kill her after she witnessed him murdering several hundreds of people
Lol what thats not deep at all. Everybody knows this. Thats about as deep as a puddle.
Jeffry Dahmer killed people for the fun of it, Joel would kill when he had to to survive and he lives in a zombie apocalypse, and you say human trafficker like he sells girls into prostitution on the side lol he smuggled goods like medicine or weapons that was how he survived with Tess
it felt that around that time episode 8 crashed and burned, tons of directors and games tried to do this "subverting expectations" bullshit. they all failed btw, this might be the absolute worst trope in media
This is severely underrated. Thanks for the laugh anon.
The ends never justify the means. I don't care how well meaning they are, I don't care what level of competence they have, and I don't care whether they're retarded or geniuses. They were murdering people in unethical experiments with ill-informed consent.
He always said he was going for an MGS2, Raiden thing. That's fair to go for but holy fuck, TLOU2 was such a shit attempt at it.
It eorod if you subvert it with something better and not a thematic middle finger lol
when she had Nora at gunpoint she tells her all she wants is Abby's location, i think it's pretty consistent throughout the story that Ellie just sees Abby's friends as a means to get to Abby and almost all of her kills are in self defense
He didn't really write the first game, he was tard wrangled by Bruce Straley. He wanted to destroy it as a fuck you to him after forcing him out of Naughty Dog the same way he did to Amy Hennig.
Maybe but I think that comment that Nora made about Joel "dying like a bitch" or whatever she said really got to Ellie. There was no real need for Ellie to kill Nora at that point either, she was already doomed to becoming infected.
Didn't they remove the main writer of TLoU in the Part 1 credits?
It was implied that he was some kind of lord of crime, he's basically just a modern day drug dealer. He's living in a military quarantined zone that's trying to protect people from the dangerous fungus of the outside world and he's actively working against them and making life more dangerous for everyone inside the zone. He's putting everyone at risk. Do you fall for every drug dealer with a sob story? I bet that fentanyl dealer has a wife and kids in the Philippines he's supporting, right? Violent mafia's are okay when the people we relate to because we saw their suffering on screen are doing it for personal profit because their daughter died that one time in a gut-wrenching opening scene.
They were murdering people in unethical experiments with ill-informed consent.
This cannot be refuted. You win sir.
Yes.
Total Neil Druckmannsteinberg death
I just don't get how rockstar doesn't need to justify themselves in order to make people take their characters seriously but this guy does and you aren't exactly committing terrorist acts in a ND game so what gives? I know how people here feel over the HBO show but I'm glad it was a hit so he can keep the TLoU franchise and stay there.
That was never going to happen because the retarded revenge bad story is what cuckman wanted to tell from day 1. Wiser heads prevailed and made tlou. He seethed that his rejected idea got mogged by an all time classic. So he forced his shit idea again after "settling" all opposing voices. That is tlou2. He would never plan a full arc for Joel and Ellie. He has hated them because they are not his creations. He is motivated by spite and ego instead of genuine passion for the world and characters.
When they were filming the first season I was working at a liquor store just a few blocks from where they filmed the hospital shootout. For about two weeks we'd have set and stunt crew coming in at night buying heaps of booze, and openly shit talking their "faggot guest director". Almost everyone we talked to who interacted with Druck hated his fucking guts and was very open about it.
He's surrounded by yes men because be ran off all the talented individuals out of jealousy. Reminder that the concord team all shared a delusion they were making a huge earthmoving blockbuster. Do not understimate the delusions of the mentally ill.
Women are wonderful anon. If you had a teenage girl cling to you for protection in a hostile post apocalyptic world nothing else would remotely matter. Unless you're gay I guess. Joel is the fantasy of like 95% of men and Ellie is the fantasy of 95% of women (I am the chosen one with a strong daddy to protect me).
Cartoonish
Lol please, the game has way more grit and character drama than the show could ever wish to have. People just take the show more seriously cause it's "cinema", give me a fucking break. Normies are cancer
we see the list of stuff Joel was smuggling and it wasn't drugs lol Joel may have been an alternative for goods in a community with waning supplies but he didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart it was just a way to survive which is what most everyone was doing
she tortured Nora for information on Abby, I don't think she did it out of some vendetta against Nora even if I kind of like that interpretation
TLOU Part II is the Folie a deux of gaming. a sequel that failed so hard no one even cares about it outside of memes.
I choose to believe this is true
All marketing, remember that Bioshock's infinite was also considered a masterpiece when it came out