Why does every game need a parry mechanic? It was getting overused in action games...

This narrative that ever game has ferrying and that carrying is bad is so fucking dumb. What the fuck is everyone even on about?

Because parrying is the only thing every single genre will take from dark souls.

Actual braindead take

The defining characteristic of quick time events isn't that you have to perform a timing based controller action(timing windows were actually extremely generous during the heyday of QTEs in the PS360 days)

The defining characteristic of QTEs is that the actions are completely context dependent, aka not part of the player's permanent arsenal of actions and not something that would be useful to perform during general gameplay scenarios

To say that parrying is like a QTE is like saying the jump button in Mario is a QTE which you have to do every time a gap appears onscreen, or that the drift button in Mario Kart is a QTE which you perform every time your trajectory enters a curve. If you remove the narrow context sensitivity from your definition of QTEs, then every action with a timing component(which is most actions in real time games) is a QTE

Expedition 33
Doom DA
Rise of the Ronin
Monster Hunter Wilds(mechanic previously absent from the series)
Stellar Blade

Parrying as a concept is fine. Stapling into your combat system with no regard for what it does to the rest of the game is lazy.
If I can play your game and win without moving because parry and riposte is an ez bake solution to all combat then your combat is shit.

QTE >>> Parrying

This

believe it or not, most modern game design is centered around the goal of being featured in an Iron Pineapple "I played some souls likes" video.

BECAUSE IT FEELS FUCKING GOOD

Talentless hacks mindlessly copying from FromCHADs.

Want it or not, the Souls like philosophy is way more accessible than your usual Hack 'n' Slash game, this is why the latter style has been completely replaced by the former.
Tight dodging is way harder to accidentaly get right in hack 'n' slashes than parry spamming in an already slower paced genre. Sekiro is regarded as one of the hardest modern games but that's an opinion parroted by all the normalfags who beat it by just learning how to exploit parrying

the söyim love QTEs

Parrying is to blocking as active reloading is to reloading.

Doesn't matter what you think of the Gears of War games, I haven't met a person who thought active reloading was a bad mechanic. It takes something passive and makes it more proactive. You either let the animation play out as normal, or press it again in a sweet spot for a faster reload, at the risk of jamming your gun if you fuck up.

Parrying rewards you with big meaty damage in exchange for a very tight window, and getting this down is both rewarding and engaging.

Because QTEs are easy engagement and the average user doesn't realize that a universal QTE button is a QTE. Some that do realize "knowing what I have to press, but figuring out the timing is way more fun than not knowing what I have to press but knowing how long I have to do it."
That and also it's not paired with an on-screen prompt (except maybe during a tutorial).
QTEs were also hated because it was mandatory to get most/all of them and often bogged down good combat or cutscenes with seemingly useless shit. Whereas a parry QTE accentuates combat by often being unnecessary, but valuable, and not slowing down or otherwise hampering the flow of combat.

It's a satisfying reflex test

the actions are completely context dependent, aka not part of the player's permanent arsenal of actions

So the Context buttons from Conker's Bad Fur Day, which just changed his equipment to give him exactly what he needed and often augmented gameplay in meaningful ways temporarily.

Avowed-slop games like Avowed.

Because it's fun.

I'd say parries are good if your game punishes you for waiting for attacks just to parry them.
And no, having your boss feint isn't a proper punishment.

This. I truly believe in the cyclical nature of history, nobody seems to actually remember that the reason why QTEs are hated is because they drove the industry down the path of movie games. A QTE is a way to turn the game into cinematic where all control is reduced to a binary interaction. Parries are in fact the opposite of this, they are a purely mechanical gameplay element.

Why do games need a jump button why do you need to be able to aim why should things be intractable. It's a basic mechanic and if it works favorably for the game why do you care so much? Is your timing that shit? Are you a reflexlet? There's nothing wrong with the implementation of a defensive option that rewards skilled gameplay. The real question is why do faggots like you and your related pic want to cry about it so badly. For instance I don't like faggots or trannies so I would never buy KCD2 or CP2077. Just avoid it and move on.

this gamer games

Stapling into your combat system with no regard for what it does to the rest of the game is lazy

I really hate that people are praising the parrying in Expedition 33 because it shits on the concept of turn based battles and isn’t even a good implementation of parrying in general.

Parries are a very easy way to make a "challenge" for the player that rewards skill and timing, but the problem is that 90% of games that use them make them too binary. As funny as "YOU CAN PARRY ANYTHING" is, if you can parry everything there's no reason to ever use any other methods of damage mitigation— it's a problem in Bayonetta (Moon of Malakha or whatever that thing is called), for example.

That's not to say that games which rely heavily on parry mechanics are bad, but if devs aren't careful it can end up boiling down every single interaction to a glorified rhythm game. Some games take advantage of this and do well— Hi-Fi Rush is LITERALLY a rhythm game, as an example, so having parries be the player's main means of defense feels great, Mario&Luigi make figuring out every enemy's dodge/parry/counter methods into sort of a mini puzzle— but it's one of those things that requires a lot of care and balance, and so many games just do it "okay" rather than "great."

Personally, I like when games either limit which attacks can be parried or give parries some sort of a major resource/time cost that can't be recovered from the parry itself. NEO TWEWY does this well by making the parry an attack you have to spend a limited attack slot on with a cooldown.

castlevania lament of innocence did the parry thing first, it was called perfect guard

Doom The Dark Ages is the worst game in the franchise by a wide margin.
You are an actual tasteless child if you like it.

I would call mechanics like active reloading and parrying objectively superior over reloading/blocking.
The question is, should those mechanics be in every game with reloading/blocking then

Parrying in RPGs isnt a new concept. But the game needs to be playable as if parrying didn't exists AND the parry window is not too generous and is sufficiently demanding.
TTYD gets a little bit of flak for superguard being too good to the point of trivializing the game once you get the timing down, meanwhile something like Bug Fables only has it provide better block so you arent as strained for healing resources, instead of total negation and a riposte.

Parrying is more of a flourish in Souls games than anything, it's much easier to beat the bosses with dodging and basic positioning than actively parrying them. It didn't really became that viable for a normies playthrough until Bloodborne, and even then it's still not as powerful as movement options. It's very central in Sekiro, which is the true progenitor of the recent trend

I would fix it into the most easygame braidead thing ever where parries are still a thing and attack delays and input reading is fundamental to it.
Attack should delay just enough to have you see and react to that attack, and pressing the parry button at any point would have the enemy input read you to hit you when your parry lines up so it both looks cinematic, rewards for a correct read on the enemy and overall makes it so piss easy that you can focus on making harder different aspects of the game.

Its just a trend like so many others before
Remember only a few years ago when every game needed a grappling hook?
Or when every game needed a tacked on crafting mechanic instead of just picking up stuff directly?
Or how games STILL have tacked on leveling mechanics?

Its all studios chasing whats popular.

Explain why it's bad without using the word slop

It's unironic Soulslop brainrot. Every game started adding it after Sekiro. They where already adding iframe dodges after DS3.

Some people can make good parry systems, others can't.
I'm afraid it's just that simple.

Every game has:

Parry

Hang glider

Tall grass stealth

what else are we missing

stamina meter

From the first glance? It takes away from freedom of movement the player has, game has huge arenas and open spaces and forces you to funnel into this spot to press this button at this time, and in a DOOM game that is a recipe for disaster. Also parry shit forces you to have this one part of brain active the whole time which is fine in many games but sometimes I just want to play a game and not stress over a millisecond button press in every game.

Using I-frames to dodge attacks instead of proper spacing.

Stun/stagger meter... fuck me tanks/mechs in Armored core have a stagger meter, fucking tanks, how the fuck a mechanical object can get stunned with visible animations, they just cannot help themselfs.

A minimap you'll spend 90% of the time watching instead of the game while traveling because the game is so forgetabble copypasted garbage that they have to do it.

Why does every game have a parry?

Because it's a really simple and tested way to make combat slightly more engaging.
I mean timed defense has basically always been in games, dodging shit, jumping over shit, the system in Paper Mario, etc. Usually when I hear people complaining about how parries are in every game, they fail to explain an alternative for defense that sounds more fun. Not to imply that it doesn't exist, but "Uhhhh make it spacing instead" with no elaboration is pretty unsatisfying.

I think we're at the point of game design where we understand a lot of the shit that works on a basic level in action games and the like and people are starting to get sick of it. I think we're going to get more postmodern shit that just fucks with basic ideas even if it's not necessarily good because of it.

Video games, faggot, VIDEO GAMES!

I just don't get it.
A huge part of the non-schizo complaints around Eternal were the fact it forced an optimum way to take out certain enemies. You were always best served shooting the cannon off arachnoids or grenading cacodemons.
So they force you play parry paddycake with the big demons in DA? At least in Eternal it was optimal but you didn't have to do it. In DA it looks like there is no other good way to strip the armor but to play paddycake.

you're pretty much right, you need to parry in dark ages if you want to have a good time. killing enemies often feels slower even if you do.

Kek

There's an argument for every bubble these days. Contrarianism, ironic shitposting, gaslighting, pretending to be retarded, it's all the same.

This turned into a discussion about parry system in games, I'd say thread derailed and saved.

proper spacing.

Oh yeah legendary proper spacing

if you attack first you lose

webm

You fags soiyed out about this exact bullet hell design in the Nier ganes

Which is exactly why the little "video game culture" thing was added to the board description. Anon Babble is literally impossible to keep on track without a 24/7 mod patrol actively monitoring the board and instantly deleting anything off topic and banning the poster.

Every mechanic is getting hate here now.

But the game needs to be playable as if parrying didn't exists AND the parry window is not too generous and is sufficiently demanding

This and it shouldn’t be a universal action. It should be a skill you have to incorporate into your character build.

Mork is a visionary. He's always two steps before youtube copycats and only one step behind me.

The board is fucking slow as molasses compared to what it was 10 years ago, an active thread will go on for 2 days before it 404s, it's not some untenable task to moderate every thread

Parries are good.
You play the game, you practice and get better at it, your skill and reflexes are tested. Pure and simple. Calling them overused is like saying shooting or slashing with a sword is overused. It's an action anyone should be capable of in a fight so it makes sense for it to become something your player character can use in most settings.
Just because you're too retarded and slow to ever get good enough doesn't make them bad.

There should be dodges that allow yout o escape the enemy hitzone.
Look at how Hollow Knight did it before you got the Shade Cloak.

It should be a skill you have to incorporate into your character build

RPG elements and "builds" are an order of magnitude more cancerous than any other overused design trend

No, putting the same "trendy" mechanic into every fucking game, even where there is absolutely no reason is getting hate. Nobody is gonna complain about royalguard in DMC, but put it in Heroes of might and magic and it might piss someones off.

it's not some untenable task to moderate every thread

But you would still need human mods doing it. Maybe you don't need 10 but you absolutely need 3 or 4 in a 3 shift system.

Publishers saw Sekiro win GOTY 6 years ago and assumed that if they put parrying in their game then it would be GOTY.

I know someone's going to comment that countering =/= parrying, but didn't every video game in the late '00s and early '10s have this? Early Assassins Creed games, Batman: Arkham, Sleeping Dogs, Mad Max and so on. As long as you press the "counter" button at the precise moment you're essentially unstoppable in every single one of those games, and I'm sure there are more I'm not thinking of.
It's the same shit, but now in "locked" third person camera games and FPS games now. It's a game of timing.

But the game needs to be playable as if parrying didn't exists AND the parry window is not too generous and is sufficiently demanding.

Are you still talking about Expedition 33 because both those are true there

It makes sense for games with actual closequarters combat especially with swords because the name "parry" originated from sword fighting arts. But when you have guns or parrying attacks from demigods that attack you with mountains its fucking silly.

RPG builds in an RPG are cancerous

What the fuck am I reading

It's the new gimmick, like QTE were back then

Third Strike has been a disaster for gaming

E33 for the first playthrou parry/dodge/jump is 80% win condition. Every single damage mitigation pales in comparison of not being hit never by any attack from any enemy in the entire game. You can randomize any setup for any character and win by just tapping buttons in time.

Nobody said anything about RPGs

dark souls invented parrying

I'm done with zoomers

It popularized it.

Read the reply chain

but didn't every video game in the late '00s and early '10s have this? Early Assassins Creed games, Batman: Arkham, Sleeping Dogs, Mad Max and so on

They were usually called counters in those games, although some did use the term parry. Anyways that was a much worse iteration of the Mechanic than what we have now because the timing was extremely generous and spacing didn't matter either. In the BamHam games if an enemy was performing an attack 20 meters from you and you pressed Y to counter Batman would fly a block down the street to intercept an attack that would have never hit him in the first place.

royalguard in DMC

Parryslop

It being the best option doesn't mean you can't play without it, and it's not forgiving either as to make the entire game trivial. Obviously there are smaller weaker enemies whose attacks are easy to parry but beside that a lot of the enemies test you.
Feels like you haven't played it or you only played just the first few hours.

Parrying wasn't even a big thing in Dark Souls. It was pretty viable against Gwyn but that's it, for the rest of the game it was much harder to parry than simply spacing/dodging

The parry window is very generous.

Action games have been doing parries since 2003 you fucking nigger. You may as well say Dark Souls popularized boss fights.

I havent played that specifically, just speaking in general terms of what a good system should abide by.
If any defensive system is too generous you undermine any semblance of difficulty. Imagine punch out where mac could just block every single punch from Tyson instead of dodging in the correct direction or intercepting him during windups, itd just be a worse game.

It literally did though

In the harder difficulty you HAVE to at least dodge, and the dodge in E33 has most of the same issues with shitting on the RPG gameplay

I was thinking of soulslikes games not just the first Demon souls. And Sekiro absolutely did just that.

Someone will make no counter run but winning against Renoir fight without QTEs is impossible I think.

You must be 18 to post here.

Dark Souls invented parry and dodge!

how the fuck a mechanical object can get stunned with visible animations

System overload.

Those examples you gave have variations to how they're performed, namely in timing. Parries do not, you do it the exact same way every single time, which is in essence a QTE.

Dodge rolls. And not even just dodges, it's specifically a roll.

high risk high reward gamble makes the games fun, specially when you know it's an option, so if you fuck it up it's on you, and you can always play more safe

nooo you can't just be ignorantly reductive on the internet

Every game doesn't need one, and many games don't fully understand how to make them properly in terms of coherent combat systems and gameplay balance, but it is an easy way to add a satisfying combat scenario since timing may be simple but it is inherently engaging.

Also I don't know how much I want to hear from someone who is not only self admittedly bad at games yet is demonstrably far worse than even he thinks, but is entirely incapable of getting past the surface of most game systems or commenting on them at all in a way that isn't brief and edgy, again actively disassociating himself with actually learning how to play the videogame despite being a critic and reviewer.
Bonus points for him playing the game with one of the best designed parry systems arguably ever and entirely disregarding anything about its combat and systems, not finishing it, and potentially not even playing it due to big discrepancies in the "review" and no gameplay afterwards despite him doing that for every other game.

hating a mechanic like parrying is peak contrarianism.

They put parrying in everything because it's an easy way to trick casuals into thinking a combat system has extra depth, so they feel skilled by pulling it off despite it requiring basically zero thought

Parrying is cool when its optional in a action game. But when your force to parry in a jrpg and fps game that when it went too far.

But when you have guns or parrying attacks from demigods that attack you with mountains its fucking silly.

Nah, it's kino

what games force you to parry?

sekiro
mario party likes

The industry when lead by execs just copies everyone else, See: Platformers, FPS, and even third person open world
The problem is now it takes 6 years to chase a trend and its fucking OVER by that point, so now you have less audience

These execs treat their companies like factories, you'd think they'd have this sort of thing down by now

based games
lrn2parry or eat shit like the faggot casual you are.

RE4 remake

Parrying is such an ableist mechanic and it’s so problematic that the gaming industry is rushing to embrace it so much

those are quicktime events, not parries.

2 digit IQ favorite game mechanic

That makes no sense. Parrying and blocking are two entirely separate actions with different strengths, weaknesses and consequences. Blocking is a state change, the proactivity comes from when you choose to go into and out of that state due to what being in the blocking state entails. Parrying is its own action usually with startup and recovery that puts the commitment solely in the action taken. What defines blocking does not define parrying and you can have both or one (or neither) without the other being impacted.
Active reloading is fundamentally tied to the action of reloading and adds a reward for being able to keep focus and consistent timing under fire with a small risk of taking longer yet still being in the same state you were. In that sense you have it backwards, since the value of blocking is knowing when and when not to block by being able to focus on when enemies attack and taking advantage of openings, active reloading is the one that is most comparable to blocking. Parrying is about knowing the specific timing of an attack so you can forgo the risk and get the reward of the counter, which isn't very close to reloading requiring you to find a safe point where you can commit to the animation to re-enable offense (shooting) but is still closer.

Depends on the game. Some parries are just pressing the “enter block state” button with the right timing

if you can parry everything there's no reason to ever use any other methods of damage mitigation

This is a pretty common issue people bring up with a lot of parry systems and while it is a fair point to an extent I think it forgets something that is argued for damn near every other mechanic and is equally relevant here: parrying might be effective at keeping you safe, but it might be far from the best option available in terms of offense and utility. Wo Long is literally a "you can parry anything" game and while it has its own issues deflects are really treated more like a resource generator while much of your offensive value beyond the baseline comes from being able to find the gaps where you can punish enemies from behind or by going over attacks by keeping attack chains going.

so piss easy that you can focus on makng harder different aspects of the game

Whether intentional or not you hit on something extremely important regarding how all systems are implemented, to make the most of them it's a somewhat give and take where ideally the other mechanics take full advantage of what each one creates as a stepping stone.

You're absolutely not forced to play parry with demons in DA you can just run and gun like any other Doom game. That webm where he's fishing for parries, you could just be shooting the demon.

what's a trend

why do trends exist

Is Anon Babble all 8 year olds whose parents don't do their jobs? How the fuck is this a question?

it's a problem in Bayonetta (Moon of Malakha or whatever that thing is called), for example.

Moon can't dodge offset, and the witch time it gives you obviously isn't available for NSIC.

the problem with parrying is that it reduces a game's complexity if you can eliminate all sources of damage with it
suddenly stats, (de)buffs, positioning, etc don't matter if you just push the button within the time window
if it becomes the obvious strat for everything, the game becomes shallow and uninteresting

True, though it sounded like he was talking about the conventional action parry. Fundamentally though when you get down to it that is the same as normal blocking just with a more weighted reward for timing while carrying its same risks, you generally already want to be spending less time in block due to it restricting other options and you missing out on opportunities by prioritizing safety, which is what makes the learning curve of it interesting and active.

Oh look, you're here again. STILL not protesting twitter and reddit screencap threads, STILL not protesting politics and culture war threads, STILL incapable of reading and realizing the thread topic is literally VIDEO GAME MECHANICS.

b-but youtube thumbnail

kys

Parries are a symptom of stagnant combat design principles in which the player must always be a glass cannon and the priority is on survival rather than offense. Skill expression is limited to how good the player is at avoiding damage, and it's all memorisation and reflexes. It can't even be called a system because there's not enough complexity.

But when your force to parry in a jrpg and fps game that when it went too far.

What's the issue?

Why does every youtube need a Avatar?
And the avatar always in "neutral pose", "crossing his arms", "smug face" and "angry"

rather than offense

You have entire genre about offence - Diablo clones. Press X to clear the screen.

Skill expression is limited to how good the player is at avoiding damage, and it's all memorisation and reflexes.

What the fuck am I reading? This is pure SKILL. You're not expressing anything in facetanking. Offence = glass cannon because nothing else matters.

Parries have been in monster hunter since generations. And 2 of those aren't even this year

parrying is fucking gay, instant no buy

invuln/counter artes in gen weren't a guaranteed stagger/knockdown like offsets in Wilds.

Floating numbers in every attack

LV and healthbars above the head

Floating weapons in the back

Metafictional epilogues. Where writers put the idea "was VR/Dream/Simulation"

I remember the balls of Nier

Ninja Gaiden did the same thing without parries.

I see posts in this thread that dislike parrying because it’s seen as being a crude reduction in that it solves most or all the game’s combat problems. So I would characterize the issue being with poor enemy design rather than the parry itself. No matter how many unique enemies there are, if most all of them shoot or physically attack within range or patrol left to right otherwise them yeah, parries will be boring. The idea is that the developers themselves should be aware of their own play habits and those of testers and then design enemies specifically to move and time their attacks in a way that forces the player to make adjustments and play at a higher level. Say there’s an enemy that you try to dive roll from, but uh-oh, you got baited because the enemy’s warmup animation was slightly different and you should have noticed that. Or an enemy that is guaranteed to punish the end of your roll and holds their attack for when you’re vulnerable again, showing that rolling will never be an option to engage that particular enemy.

What games have GOOD parries that feel as if they belong in the game then? And dont say dark souls because we and you also know you are lying through your ass with that one

The Nier balls at least are designed to kill you. What the fuck is happening with the doom ones? Why do they float in the air for 5 seconds for the journo to figure out which colour is which? Why is the shot that makes no sense spread into groups of balls in a vertical line?

Sifu did it well.

I see posts in this thread that dislike parrying because it’s seen as being a crude reduction in that it solves most or all the game’s combat problems

This is Anon Babble.
99% of anons can't parry shit. Even in souls where parry can solve anything no one cares. It's a made up problem/hate

two Anon Babble ecelebs made parry videos after Doom DA

WTF I HATE PARRY NOW

I've been hating them since Wo Long

So I would characterize the issue being with poor enemy design rather than the parry itself.

I think they go hand-in-hand, personally; it doesn't matter how much an enemy varies its position and attack timing if the answer to every single attack is still "parry at the correct time". Enemies need to have a way to contest the parry if you want other methods of defense to feel even a little viable.

Not him and it seems like you're purposefully misunderstanding him, but you also ended up highlighting the crux of his point from your perspective. What you think of Diablo clones as far as offence is exactly how he sees parrying in regards to defence. Press X to cancel the screen.

fromsoft almost figured it out by making some bosses take multiple parries to stagger, they just needed to go one step further and give them a combo mixup for it too.

Elden ring has my favorite parrying

enemies have randomized swings and swing speeds

they will animation cancel when you hit parry so they can do a different attack

parry window being insanely small on top of all this

Nobody knows why it exists, they even added special parry animations to some bosses

Exactly. A game has memorable enemies when you remember having to adjust to them. Even Mario games have enemies like that because you learn you can’t jump on all of them or that some of them instead slide back and forth instead of being defeated. To me, enemy variety is a huge fucking issue and plagues “metroidvanias”, platformers, and most action games in general, the suggestion being that enemies only need to differ in how much damage they do or how much HP they have is enough. WRONG.

Essentially yes, parrying has more than enough caveats and counters that can be used to make it less desirable and fit into games where spacing and positioning are still just as if not more valuable. It's why I don't buy the whole anti-parry brigade wholesale when they say the mere existence of any parry mechanic just nukes everything, I have to wonder how many games they've played and how well they've tried to play them. Naturally Anon Babble is already a congregation of people who want to pretend they're good at games while never playing them so the all or nothing mentality gets amplified even harder.
Pic related and what proved OP pic related as a shitter in not just understanding combat but writing.

Personally I hate parrying and rolling because I like taking the offensive, going fast, and having a fluid fighting style and a lot of action games nowadays will punish you for doing anything other than waiting to press the button that makes you invincible.

SoP is a good example of "just parry everything". Maybe if running out of meter actually prevented you from using soul shield entirely instead of just shortening the window it could have been good.

Personally, I think KH1 is still as clone to my ideal version of a parry as I've seen a game get; Blocking or parrying in KH1 staggers both you and the enemy, and the rate at which either of you recover is determined both by what attack you blocked and the weight of your weapon. It's kind of unintuitive (owing to the fact that keyblade weight is a hidden stat for literally no reason whatsoever) but once you know it's there it's cool as fuck and encourages you to try out different methods of defense based on the enemy you're fighting. Unless you're in the endgame with a Magic build and can spam Curaga infinitely, but I think it's fine to let the player break an RPG over their knee in the endgame.

Is Anon Babble okay with any defensive mechanic that isn't just walking outside an attack's range?

You know, this mechanic that's gotten popular lately kind of oversimplifies defense in the games that it's used in when it's not implemented well, maybe it's not best to use it in everything without care in its implementation.

GEEZE Anon Babble MUST HATE EVERYTHING LOL

That’s not a bad way of going about it, first I’ve heard of it and impressed that they thought to do that.

Also appreciate someone mentioning Elden Ring apparently has randomization in the timing of enemies’ attack animations, very smart. Should be done for 2D adventure games, too, keep players on their toes.

In games where you can press X to cancel the screen the parry is either peak skill expression (and removing parry will just remove all possible skill expression you can have in such game ) or just one of the tools for your expression (and the clean gameplay is combining all tools together).

Just making it even harder to time isn't the best solution alone in most cases but SoP makes it work because of the wealth of other options both in defense and offense that are much more valuable than Soul Shield, further emphasizing the very minimal window you end up along with having plenty of unblockable attacks. The game takes some time to really start putting pressure on your Break gauge and ask more out of you offensively which is when the combat truly comes alive.

QTEs is hated because movie games became hated over time. They exist mainly because devs don't want players to skip cutscenes but writing in video games has degraded over time to the point that no one wants to watch cutscenes.

I don’t think elden ring has randomization of any enemy attack timing. There are attacks that have reactivity to player movements I think but that’s it.

first I’ve heard of it and impressed that they thought to do that.

KH1 has a lot of really fascinating little intricacies in its combat system that sadly get kind of simplified out of the series as it goes on. Like, every single keyblade in the game has an associated length (which affects the hitbox when attacking), weight (which affects how hard Sora staggers when parrying or guarding) Crit Chance, and Crit damage multiplier, but all of those stats are COMPLETELY hidden outside of some weapons hinting at it in their flavor text.
khwiki.com/Weapons_(KH)
I honestly really wish they'd try their hands at a more KH1-inspired game again, but KH2 is sadly more popular because it feels more "fluid" right off the bat, even if (in my opinion) the systems don't come together anywhere near as nicely.

Its been proven that they do. They also got input reading. Bosses are so aggressive with input reading that you can force them to jump off cliffs because they're programed to attack whenever you sip

I want to mash

Go away Bloodborneman. All I wanted from elden ring was fucking deflection.

The massive influence of Dark Souls

I'm getting to the point where I am simultaneously sick of the partying, but also sick of the bitching about parrying. I know its an absolute meme at this point. I get it, its just another dumb industry trend, like every game featuring a protagonist with a robot arm, but at the end of the day all it is, is pushing a button at the correct time. So why are games obsessed with "pushing buttons at the right time"? Gee, I dont fucking know. Why would anyone like fighting games? Why would anyone like guitar hero? Why would anyone like QTEs? Nu-doom isn't bad because its "parry slop" its because its just bad. If the game was good, nobody would be talking about the partying. Parrying merits as much discussion as dodge rolling.

My phoneposting self let parrying get autocorrected twice in the same post.

I am a huge fagot, please rape my face.

Is it peak skill expression when there is only one skill you can express? Ultimately it depends on what the game is going for. I agree though, you're right on the potential issue a game might have with removing parrying but that would be an issue with the game entirely rather than parrying, and ideally the game should be designed around making sure all your tools can be relevant and work with each other.

The problem is implementation then, like with everything. What was the period of time where we had games with deeper defense before the parry "trend"?
This is anti-Fromsoft contrarianism where the memers are having to justify the meme after the fact. No, there's never been and isn't now a problem with fucking dodging or parrying in video games. Yes some games do it better than others, and that isn't an issue with the mechanic itself.

It's the "in" thing. 15 years ago it was QTEs.

I know they have animation-state reactivity, they don’t have randomized timing though. Please post evidence to the contrary, I only 100%ed the game after all.

The worst victim of the parry fad is PSO2:NGS. Holy shit, every fucking class in that game is based on parry spam. The entire game is centralized around it. It's so fucking boring.

The problem is that deeper defense, like with deeper offense and deeper literally everything has been demonized for decades, since you bring them up even Fromsoft games have been weaponized against deeper mechanics very often. People need to play older games, properly learn how to navigate and learn games beyond the bare minimum while trying to prop themselves up with false merit and drag down others, replay games to learn different perspectives, get out their comfort zones to adapt to what the game they're playing is without thinking they should win because they played something else, and not freak out if they die 2 times and skip past everything because they "did it already" while ignoring the options.
Instead of whining about yellow paint and easy modes while begging for nerfs and minimaps they need to walk the fucking walk.

What in the name of fuck are those dark energy orbs in Nier, I remember when I played the first one it was magic or some shit coming out of a book and/or shadow enemies.
Can robots do magic too or was it simply Nier dev being a lazy ass as usual?

What's deeper defense? The game with directional block and attacks? The gameplay in such games is pretty different.

NTA, i don't know if they have randomized time or not even though it felt that way, but a lot of shit also comes from a lot of attacks windpu looking similair or using the same animation for something that requires you different timings on the dodge.

Are you talking about delayed attacks? Some attacks can be delayed. Also ER has stance break gacha lol

Loser mentality, you will never parry a nuke.

What is this, a parry for ants?
Also I was kinda let down by the demo for this

not delayed attacks, stuff like rising weapons in the air that can lead to either an icepick stab or a slam.

Grandpa rambling at bushes tier argument

one of the main combat styles of dante in dmc3 is entirely parry based, this is a 2005 ps2 game

Anon Babble really is populated by mexican and brazilian zoomers who know absolutely nothing about videogames, very grim

easiest way to make the combat look more impressive and make players feel better than they actually are, sekiro is a prime example, fromsoft gave people a spammable 45 frame parry with no recovery and niggas started clipping themselves mashing L1 as if its impressive.

Hard disagree.
I think the Dark Souls formula stuck because at the time all normies were playing that remotely resembled a fantasy setting was Skyrim, and DS had a much better combat, also combined with the sweaty gaymer "heh I'm better than you at this" mentality and normies felling for this retarded bait to prove themselves was the perfect concotion for FROM games to rise.

I mean yeah, people like to compete with each other. You know what needs to make a come back? High scores.

krauser is the one time i actually used the parries, i legit forgot they even existed for 99% of the playthrough

no one asked you, Doug

Parries when they are actually implemented well are ignored as they meld into gameplay

Parries not well implemented "OMG SKILL ISHU JUS GIT GUD CASUL!!!1!"

Why does this happen?

The problem is implementation then

Yeah this thread is full of 2 people arguing about parrying in general while each thinking of a different game, then getting mad at eachother when the specifics of the other argument don't match the game they're thinking of.

You forgot the grappling hook.

not every game needs it, but a well-implemented parry mechanic in a proper context is a very satisfying way to interact with a game.