Sly 4

The best possible thing they could do is just never acknowledge Thieves in Time at all. Make a real Sly 4 instead. I really like that concept that's been bounced around before of it being a soft reboot where you play as Sly and Carmelita's son.

I haven't seen it. Elaborate.

It's amazing how middle of the road this game is

The graphics are REALLY good

But the character designs are shit

And the cutscenes completely lost the comic book charm

The controls are at their best

But it has the worst fucking maps in the franchise

The concept is cool

But the story is fucking dogshit

That's not how you reach "middle of the road" A game like that isn't "average." It's actually the most superlative dogshit imaginable.

If it were the other way around, and it were an underwhelming, buggy Sly game with an amazing story and the characters, environments and cutscenes were all extremely good, it would be regarded as a flawed masterpiece.

What's the exact opposite of a flawed masterpiece? An especially competent travesty. That's what Thieves in Time is. It's literally the worst outcome possible. My hatred for Thieves in Time will never end, and I refuse to call it Sly 4.

I hate Bob so much it's unreal

I don't hate Sly 4 it's pretty decent actually but I still stand that they should have never continued the series after 3 ended it so beautifully

Have a perfect opportunity to have Clockwerk back as a villain, maybe get to see what he was like before becoming the hate robot

Instead get Le Paradox, someone whose gripes with the Cooper clan are somehow more petty than Clockwerk.

Also

Go through the ancestors

No Slaigh McCooper

Or Henrietta to get the boat minigame back from 3 or...
Actually, the game should've been the ones that were mentioned in the cooper vault. That would've been kickass.

I did the Cooper Vault last night and it was depressing thinking of all the vastly more interesting ways the ancestors could've been used

Riochi should've had his two canes

Salim shouldn't have been an old man with Sly's exact build and cane

Slaigh should've been used instead of Bob

Otto van Cooper could've been interesting to have a Cooper relate more to Bentley than to Sly himself

How the FUCK can you do a Time Travel story about Sly Cooper and not include his fucking father in it, hello??? Le Paradox's entire reason to be the villain is that his hate for Coopers specifically started with Sly's father and you're telling me he didn't even go back in time for him???

The best cooper in the game and one that WAS in the vault was Tennessee kid Cooper, but I wanted big mustache Tennessee, not his younger form.

All I've ever wanted to know is where Bruce O'Coop fits in. He developed a Computer Hacking Technique that's in the Thevious Raccoonus in the first game. Who is he to Sly? A distant cousin, an uncle, or is he Sly's Grandfather? There aren't many options besides those that actually fit into the timeline.

Since we are talking about the Cooper Vault, post your face when sliding on Lasers being Connor's technique

Based as fuck

Come on dad help me out here

Blue particles appear

Shame it basically doesn't get used in Sly 4

I don't what the fuck they were thinking with Galeth. I guess an honorable knight wouldn't be cool enough so he has to be an oaf

The character models were made by people who didn't understand the assignment at all.

I can't agree,

Notice how you can't see her ugly face

lol retard

Sly 4's designs are just overall garbage and the character designer should get executed for his crimes

What was with Murray in this game? It's like his arc in 2 and 3 didn't happen. No way that I can see 4's murray saying "I'm going to floss my teeth with your spine".
Actually, what happened to the slight edge in general in 4? Sure, the entire series had comedic aspects and moments, but there was always a sense of bite that occurred during critical moments.

Every character is Flanderized to Hell and back multiple times over. Murray's a weird pastiche of all his flaws from 1, 2, and 3 with none of the good parts. Sly's a quipping smartass who doesn't care about anyone or anything, and all of Bentley's depth is gone, and he's just a generic Know-it-all character. It's fucking baffling.

Actually, what happened to the slight edge in general in 4?

Just look at the colors, my guy.
Sly Cooper as a series is supposed to look like a gritty superhero comic book with noir elements, best example I can give is the original TMNT comic.
Sly 4's developers just didn't understand shit about the franchise.

the edge is gone

the colors are more vibrant

the character designs are more "refined" (this actually takes away from the original simpler designs)

Sly 2 and 3 are Mirage's TMNT
Sly 4 is the ugly lovechild of TMNT 2012 and Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Gritty superhero comic

Not really. It's got it's own identity, I'd say it's more like a mainstream action cartoon with a sort of gothic vibe. Everything is moody and crooked in an expressive way. The environments look as much like they come straight out of a cartoon as the PS2 was capable of producing. It's like that style associated with old fairy tales, but applied to modern architecture and urban spaces.

There are too many straight lines in Thieves in Time, and the environments aren't especially moody.

Well this is the game with the penelope twist so characters aren't their strong suit.

The original trilogy had such a unique aesthetic and vibe. I could walk around Paris for hours just listening to that theme.

dad walks in

There's a bunch of minor stuff that bothers me in 4 on top of the other stuff mentioned.
I don't like how high tech all of Bentley's stuff is. I liked that he pick pocketed with a magnet on a fishing pole in 3, and that the slide shows were all analog.
And it's disappointing that they made it so the pre-mission binocu-com stuff is basically just a frame while the camera zooms all over the level instead of it being binoculars that Sly or whoever is using that moves and zooms as if it were pivoting from where you currently stand

And it's disappointing that they made it so the pre-mission binocu-com stuff is basically just a frame while the camera zooms all over the level instead of it being binoculars that Sly or whoever is using that moves and zooms as if it were pivoting from where you currently stand

You have no idea how much that bothered me. It just kept niggling the back of my mind throughout the entire game.

Reminder that you can easily make an argument for Sly 4 being significantly worse than 2/3 without using anything involving story and writing at all. People seem to gloss over how simplistic, railroaded, and boring most of the Sly 4 missions are. Even the Chapter ending operations aren't as good as some of the worst ones in 2/3.

damn im actually glad i put the series down at 3 and my memory is that all the sly games were awesome.

You must share in our pain, that's what it means to be a true Sly Cooper fan.

Alright sly niggas, let's list em

Best mission

Best level

Best line

Best villain (Other than Clockwerk)

Best fight

Name one good thing about Thieves in Time

>The concept is cool

>But the story is fucking dogshit

I will never stop being angry at what could have been.

Just make the fucking skunk the first act villain to introduce the time travel concept.

First segment is a speedrun through the eras chasing Paradox through history.

Clockwerk is in the background of each era, noticing the extra Cooper suddenly appearing and vanishing through the ages

Realizes what's going on, when at the end of Sly 1 he realizes Sly survives past this to time travel, immediately fucks off, doesn't die.

Sly gets back to the present, immediately ambushed by Clockwerk who steals their time machine

Forced to use Paradox's to chase him back down

Real meat of the game is Clockwerk fucking up history for the Coopers out of spite

Clockwerk finally decides to nip this issue in the bud and goes back to the end of Sly 1 right after his realization of the time travel plot

Final boss is Past and Present Clockwerks fighting Present Sly and an extremely confused Past Sly and his gang.

Best mission

Operation: Hippo Drop (first Rajang Heist) mainly because it's a perfect display of all of the characterization of the main cast.

Best level

Sly 2 Paris (thematically) and most of the Sly 1 Mesa City missions in terms of actual gameplay

Best line

Any of the shit you say in the Sly 3 Pirate Talk mission

Best villain (Other than Clockwerk)

The Contessa

Best fight

General Tsao fight with Sly

Name one good thing about Thieves in Time

Despite all the nostalgia wanking dialogue and writing, it didn't actually needlessly bring back (ancestor) bosses from 1/2/3 even though it could have tried.

Why did Carmelita's voice change every game? Also Sly 4 was really mid. The dialogue felt very unnatural and borderline cringe at times. The fucking dancing Murray mini-game too holy shit what the fuck was that?

The music from Sly 1

The level design from Sly 2

The writing from Sly 3

The graphics from Sly 4

The perfect Sly game

No you can't just be happy doing the thing you want to do with your friends you need to take over the world because that's what I think you should do!!!!!

People can say that Penelope was written badly but its really just a normal woman moment

But the graphics in 4 are dogshit. The character models are fucking awful compared to 1-3

The graphics from Sly 4

The only time Sly 4 ever looked good is in the teaser animation for it you unlocked in that buggy HD Collection of 1-3

Use Dimitri in the teaser

Have him next to the gang in promos

He isn't playable, only shows up during cutscenes and has 0 dialogue

They massacred my greasy sweet boy

I was rather talking about graphical fidelity in general. I know the models look bad but the environments are still very pretty.

When it seems like the Sly's have finally won Clockwerk actually manages to escape from his lava tomb

"NO, THIS ISN'T OVER YET COOPER, I HAVE TO GO EVEN FURTHER BACK."

Clockwerk manages to activate one last time the Time Machine with Sly also jumping into it last second

The Time Machine appears in the night sky, but it's actually falling apart due to overusing it

Sly looks around while holding on for dear life and recognizes the place

He notices a broken Clockwerk falling towards the ground and starts to chase him in the sky just like in Sly 2

Suddenly the scene switches to Sly's childhood home, we see his father trying his best to fight the Fiendish Five and somewhat actually succeeding

He notices something falling from the sky as Future Clockwerk crashes into the Cooper House

Future Clockwerk starts dragging himself towards the closet where Kid!Sly is hiding

Adult!Sly arrives just a few seconds after and tries to stop him, but ends up being blocked by the confused Fiendish Five who are surprised to see another Cooper

Quick Boss Rush against Panda King, Muggshot, Mz. Ruby and Raleigh

Past Clockwerk shoots Sly from behind but his father jumps in front of the bullet

Past Clockwerk is about to finish the job but gets scared after he sees the debris from the Time Machine falling on the house, so he quickly grabs the thievius raccoonus and escapes

Sly and his heavily injured father rush into the house where Future Clockwerk is about to crush Kid!Sly in his mouth

You have to surpass a platforming section in the burning house while you see Sly's healthbar slowly emptying itself

Sly reaches Clockwerk just as his healthbar is about to reach 0 and with the help of his father they manage to open Clockwerk's jaw

Sly's father orders Adult!Sly to run away with the kid, Sly does so while also planning to go back to save his father

Before he can do that the house gets completely destroyed by the Time Machine's explosion, killing Clockwerk and his dad

Sly mourns the death of his family as he holds his young self in his arms

He takes Young!Sly to the orphanage he grew up in, then writes a letter to Carmelita, saying that it MUST be delivered specifically on the day after the Sly 4's start

Bentley, Murray and Carmelita arrive in the past with the second Time Machine and take Sly back to his time

Best Mission

Hard to pick but probably Operation: Wedding Crasher. I like the dynamic of the crew a lot in this one

Best Level

Venice but only because I really like the music. "Bentley Saves the Gang in: Jailbreak" for story though

Best Line

"What are you kidding? You break in to my joint, steal my stuff, trash the joint. I feel transgressed and violated! Let's rock!"

Best Villain

Muggshot or Dimitri

Best Fight

Sly 3 Geneal Tsao

One good thing about Thieves in Time

I like that they brought Clue Bottles back, I think the hidden masks are a neat collectable, and I like what they did with the treasures you can steal (including being able to steal them during jobs)

Sly is holding you back!!!!!

When in fact Sly and Bentley haven't spoken in ages and Bentley's been doing his own thing for a few years now

Yeah that's the retarded thing. It also doesn't make sense since Penelope knew this because she helped Bentley make the new Cooper vault to protect the Thievius Racoonus that is now shut "forever", something that would only happen if the Cooper gang was done.

Penelope was never evil in the first place. There was no basis for her "heel turn" at all.
She created a false identity so she could compete in totally legal dogfighting competitions because women and minors weren't permitted. She won too much and became too successful and got caught up so deeply she couldn't just reveal the truth and bail out without serious consequences.

It's also a direct recapitulation of Dr. M's point from Sly 3, so it's a point she'd already know Bentley's feelings on even if Sly hadn't been out of the picture anyway.

I guess you could argue that as the Baron she cheated to keep her title, but then again literally everyone was cheating in that contest so who cares

Best mission

The Cooper Vault mission. Finally seeing the vault you've worked to get into the entire game felt so satisfying. Not to mention the music and how every ancestor made their own custom challenge, the climax being Sly's dad's laser walk he never got to write in the Thievious Raccoonus

Best level

Venice, it's just really iconic and stands out to me, especially with the canals with moving boats and the guards wearing carnevale outfits

Best line

"Your mother was a broken-down tub of junk with more gentleman callers than the operator!"

Best villain (Other than Clockwerk)

Dimitri is just full of personality but I see him more as an ally than villain. So probably Dr. M

Best fight

General Tsao, the bamboo garden was really cool and it felt satisfying to beat him up

Name one good thing about Thieves in Time

Gameplay-wise it was still fun. I like that they went all out with the collectibles

What perfect timing for this thread to exist.

Just platinum'd Sly 1 yesterday and I loved the collect-a-thon aspect of it. However just started Sly 2 and just as I started, something about it doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because of each level being an episode with sublevels (and AFAIK no blueprints), and Murray's character having a sudden change.

Either way, I will most likely enjoy it regardless.

Murray's change makes sense if you look at it as overcompensating from his cowardly nature in 1. It definitely makes more sense as the game goes on.

The reason Murray changes so much from Sly 1 to Sly 2 is that they basically totally reinvented him between games.

In Thievious Raccoonus, he was originally supposed to be gay. This was the case until very late in development. They actually recorded lines for Murray in a "gay voice" before they realized it wasn't going to fly. So they reworked him into a dimwitted coward instead, because that required the least amount of work to swap in. For Sly 2, they basically started from scratch with a version they were actually happy with.

I wouldn't complain if they made Murray gay in a real Sly 4 and did it respectfully as a nod to that original intent.

THERE IS NO SLY 4

Sly is happy with his wife, and now we may only hope for spiritual successor of a cartoony heist simulator